A Contagious Smile Podcast
A Contagious Smile is a powerful platform dedicated to uplifting and empowering special needs families and survivors of domestic violence. Through heartfelt stories, we shine a light on the journeys of extraordinary individuals who have overcome unimaginable challenges. Their triumphs serve as a testament to resilience and strength, inspiring others to rediscover their own inner light. Each episode features candid interviews with survivors, advocates, and experts who provide valuable resources and insights to support those on their own paths to healing and empowerment. Join us as we celebrate the power of resilience, the beauty of shared stories, and the unstoppable spirit of those who turn adversity into hope. Let us guide you in rekindling your spirit, because every smile tells a story of courage and transformation.
A Contagious Smile Podcast
Justice or Just Us? The Battle for Rehabilitation vs. Punishment TRIGGER WARNING
TRIGGER WARNING:
What if the key to navigating personal relationships lies in the balance between grace and boundaries? Join us as Dana, our lively co-host, shares her experiences juggling life with two spirited kittens, drawing parallels to the challenges of marriage. We also confront a harrowing story from Atlanta, discussing how such events fuel our advocacy for the voiceless and emphasize the need to break cycles of abuse. This episode isn't just about recounting stories—it's a call to action for using our voices to spearhead positive change.
Our conversation takes a critical turn as we explore the controversial landscape of punishment versus rehabilitation for violent offenders. Do these individuals deserve a second chance, or should society focus on harsher penalties? As we question the resources allocated to prisoner comforts over veterans and the homeless, you'll hear from a professional working in the field of sex offender rehabilitation. Their insights prompt skepticism and moral debates about the effectiveness of these efforts, urging listeners to rethink societal priorities.
But the journey doesn't end there; we also tackle the complexities of healing from toxic relationships and past traumas. Through personal anecdotes, we delve into the significance of self-acceptance and self-talk in overcoming body image issues and emotional scars. Whether it's about finding the right therapist, embracing authenticity, or confronting painful family dynamics, this episode offers a compassionate guide to resilience and personal growth. Listen in for heartfelt encouragement to remain true to yourself and overcome the negative influences that seek to undermine your self-worth.
Good evening and welcome to another episode of NARC. Narc, who's there? Help, gasp, I'm gasping for air. It's a mouthful. Dana is back co-hosting with me. I'm so excited. I'm looking at this sweet little kitten that she's got and he's just just so cute. The eyes are the so, oh, she's got both.
Speaker 2:I've got both of them now.
Speaker 1:Yeah they're?
Speaker 2:they're literally like having I, so I thought it was a good idea. Everybody. I lost my precious kitty in June and I was just. I do a lot of writing. It's a lonely life, being at home all by myself, day in, day out, in the middle of nowhere. So you know, I thought about getting a new kit and then my husband said, oh, you should get two. Great idea. Thanks, babe. I literally have like one-year-old toddlers. If anyone has done twins, this is my life right now. Every morning it's 3 am, 4 am.
Speaker 1:But we're up anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I try not to be. I've been working on my sleep and my nervous system, but you know, one will be climbing the drapes and one's tearing some basket up. I just my house is. It's okay, though. You know, it's a wonderful life when they're sweet and looking at me with those eyes and giving me kisses. It's all worth it, right? That's what I keep saying. Yes, and they have the most beautiful eyes yeah, I mean, yeah, gizmo.
Speaker 2:Gizmo does have the most beautiful eyes, but if you feed him after midnight he turns into stripe, I guarantee you all right.
Speaker 1:Well, as you know, we have still they're still coming in questions and stories.
Speaker 2:Unbelievable.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:I almost sent a question in the other day too, because I'm like well, heck, if everybody's asking questions, what's your question? You know, I think I posted it on social media last week. Just something I struggle with is, you know, in the healing, where do you draw the line between giving somebody grace, you know, and understanding that, okay, I got to give on this, I got to not push this. You know, let them have this kind of a thing, even though it's kind of crossing my boundary of self-respect, because I understand that they're going through whatever they're living their life, it's their experience. So, giving grace versus no, I am not budging on my boundaries. I am going to because I was so far on the other side.
Speaker 2:Obviously, for the first 45 years of my life it was people pleasing whatever somebody wanted, no matter if I had to bend backwards and twist my arms around this, that or the other thing just to make everyone pleased with me. But now that I've learned to say no, man, I say it like nobody's business. But sometimes and I mean even in my marriage, it's like. You know, my husband said to me last week this came up because he's like you just want it your way or no way and I'm like, well, hold on. Now that is not the case. I am just not willing to loosen my boundaries now that I have some, because I'm afraid I'm terrified because that's how I lost myself to begin with was let this go, let that slide. I understand, I'll excuse it, I get it. And then the next thing, you know, there were no boundaries and there was no respect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were talking about it on our Unstoppable and if anybody's ever wondered what I sound like fired up, you have to check out last night's unstoppable, because michael and I were talking and we I saw a news report and I I just want to take a second and talk about it because it literally grabbed me so badly and I was so just I was. I already know how you're gonna react. A woman in Atlanta was found guilty, rightfully so, of and it was so hard for me to even say this. She took her to a young, gorgeous little kids one, I believe, was two, one was one and put them in the oven and turn the oven on.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, yes, and oh my.
Speaker 1:God Right. And so I explained that I'm an advocate and I'm using my voice, because they have no voice and this. I can't even call her a woman. I don't want her in our category. So this individual goes and gets on the phone, calls 911, says I just returned home from work and, by the way, this is what I saw and that was how her tone was. And so she says my son's brains are all over the floor, yes, and the oven had come out and fallen on the child, and there were two, and so they.
Speaker 1:I was mortified reading this and she was found guilty and I don't know what her sentence is. But you know, whatever it is, it's not enough. I'm sorry. I don't agree that whatever it'll be, it'll be enough, because these kids pay the ultimate price. They are no longer here and I'm sorry, sorry, but if you're going to kill your kids, I think you should go right to death row, like I don't think you should get another chance. These kids didn't get another chance. I do not agree at all.
Speaker 1:I got some backslash from people saying well, you know she was abused growing up. Well, ok, let's open that pot for a second, because so was I and so were you. Okay, let's open that pot for a second, because so was I and so were you, and I brought that up on the unstoppable last night and said you can either turn your life around and do what we did and I specifically talked about this specific show, how we broke the cycle and using our voice for better or you can lay on that crutch, and that's not okay. Like you know, it's not okay, unacceptable.
Speaker 2:And it's funny you say that because that's a question when my first book came out about my first marriage, which was abusive, one of the main things I mean. More times than not in interviews people would say, oh well, were you abused growing up? Yes, well, what about your parents? Were they? Yes, my stepfather and my mother were both in very abusive situations. That is not a damn excuse, and I don't. I mean, I understand epigenetics and generational cycles and all this stuff. I've spoken about all of that.
Speaker 2:Well, let me tell you something Every damn person, I have this idea. I'm going to venture out to say that, by somewhere between 12 to 14 years old, you know right from wrong, absolutely, and I'm going to say, assuming there are no disabilities or mental health issues present, you know right from wrong, right. You know you have the choice and you have the power to make good decisions or bad decisions and when you choose to and you've heard my thing intentionally harm another human being, whether it's your kid, a coworker, a stranger, whatever, you're a piece of crap your pet, oh yeah. I didn't even put our pets in our book, honestly, because there was're a piece of crap, right, your pet, oh yeah, I didn't even put our pets in our book, honestly, because I, I, there was no room for all that, Right, but that just gnaws at my I mean, and what kills me, as I was that kid, that child services was called on. I went to the police myself when I got brave enough, and you know what happened? Nothing, nothing.
Speaker 2:Oh, the neighbors said they're lovely people, the people that worked for them. Why would you interview the employees of somebody? You think they're going to risk their jobs and their paychecks over saying the truth? Because they all saw it, they all knew what was going on. But oh no, everything's fine. Dana's just disturbed and she's rebelling. And no, no, and it's a damn shame, because our system is so screwed up, thank you. People that shouldn't have children have custody of children or they get them back, or, in a case like this, you can't just tell me she just decided one day to put them in the oven, unless she does have actual no, it gets worse, there's worse, there's more.
Speaker 1:okay, so this individual goes and not only calls the police, calls baby daddy and says, hi, I need to facTime with you and FaceTimes and shows him the kids and says look, look, look, look, calm, cool and collective. I don't know how this happened. I just came home from work. Yet, when all this is happening and I understand for the safety of the third child that they don't disclose the age the oldest child, who they say is an elementary age child, witnessed the entire thing, saw his mom do the entire thing and now has to testify against mom and did so. And here's the thing I don't believe and I said I know I'm going to get a lot of slack, but you know what it's the same thing. I don't know what it's like to have cancer and I would never imagine to know what it's like to have cancer. If you haven't been on our shoes, don't imagine that. You know what it's like. But I'm here to tell you that this individual ruined more than just two individual beautiful children. I mean, this little boy is going to have to deal with this for the rest of his life. Oh my God, I have a huge problem paying taxes to give this individual three squares a day, health care, a roof over her head and education. I'm sorry, you know one step further.
Speaker 1:You know you have these pedophiles and in many states now they do chemical castration. If you're into pedophilia, right. Why is it that if you, without a shadow of a doubt, kill, but if we can chemically castrate a child, a man, if you want to call them that for being in pedophilia, why is it when a woman does this to her own children, can we not make it where she can't have any more kids, because there's so many of us that would do anything. I'd have 10 faiths If I could have. I would have had 10 children with trachs and everything else, because I would. I love kids.
Speaker 1:But then you have people who have given their life to try to be a mom or dad and they can't. And then these people. Kids are not tax write-offs. Kids are not tax exemptions. They're not ways to and I'm not saying every parent is that way, because they're not, but a lot of them are they're not ways for you to gain more money from the government. But if you think you have the right to take a life that didn't ask to be here to begin with, I'm sorry. I think it should be necessary that you get your tubes tied or a hysterectomy, or you know that you're not able to have kids anymore because casey anthony, you know the, the woman who killed child. She's now out of prison and she's trying to get pregnant. Yeah, what right do they have to have more kids?
Speaker 2:Well, unfortunately, I think it's interesting that you bring all that up because, well, for starters, don't ever be sorry for how you feel. There are going to be people listening to this that don't agree, and there's going to be people that agree to an extent and whatever, and we are not meaning to offend anybody. But I am going to be honest with you. Ever since I was a teenager and I actually was going to go into criminal justice or law, I'm a firm believer in an eye for an eye. I think, however you killed somebody or hurt somebody, the same should be done to you in the same amount of slow suffering or whatever. I don't think this chemical castration F that. And as far as the sterilizing women, it's interesting because people don't know this. I'm not saying Hitler was a good guy. Please don't mistake what I'm saying. But what I'm saying is people make out Hitler to be such a bad guy for what he did to the Jews and all the stuff that was going on over there. Yet at the same time, in the early 1900s, through the 1920s and I would venture to say the 30s, we were doing those things here. We were doing those things here. We just didn't call it extermination, we weren't trying to. But if somebody had mental illness, if somebody had physical disabilities, I hate to say, faith would have been one of them and honestly, I would have been one of them too. I was a product of a teenage, unwed teenage mother.
Speaker 2:Anything that could be considered what they call a disappointment or somebody that would taint the population if they reproduced, were put into what we now call asylums. They said they were for tuberculosis. Yeah, not so much. They were for any what they'd call undesirables, and that was if you were lucky enough to go in an institution, but they would sterilize you if you're a woman, and they would sterilize you if you were a man too, because they did not want you reproducing more people like you and if you were not lucky enough to end up in one of those places. I've sold real estate, you know, for many, many years, and so I.
Speaker 2:A lot of these old towns people always wonder about. There's these rooms in the attics or the third floor, with the stairs going up. Those were called disappointment rooms. People, the disappointments. As a matter of fact, I just watched a show this morning, at three in the morning, where they were in an old house, and the story was that the people who, the wealthy people who built the house, had a maid, that dad was screwing and she got pregnant. Well, nobody could know about this child Disappointments room. I would have been up there if I wasn't in an asylum disappointments room. I would have been up there if I wasn't in an asylum? Yeah, you probably would have been. It's just so sad that we don't want to face what we do in our own country but all of a sudden we want to be humane and treat people. You know, with all this respect, that they can't give other people, and I say after that but that's just me.
Speaker 1:Well, now that you've said that, I'm so glad you opened this up because it really does fall into what we do and what we talk about, to be honest. But on top of it, you know, michael and I were doing this and he was like okay, babe, and I was like no, and I was getting really emotional about it and I said why is it people say it's inhumane for lethal injection? Is it inhumane to put your two and one year old child in a freaking oven and turn it on? That's not inhumane. I'm sorry there are many states in this country that still do, you know, corporal punishment and I'm sorry, I don't believe that lightly and softly putting you to sleep is inhumane. I think it's too friendly, I think it's too nice. I don't think we should go through all the appeal process. If we have you dead to rights, then that's it. You know, I'm sorry and I even said this.
Speaker 1:I was like the electric chair. Let's not put the sponge on your head. Don't soak it. You know like that. Don't put the thing over your eyes. Go ahead and take that off, because the only reason that covers on your eyes so your eyeballs don't pop out, don't give you anything to bite down on, so you don't split your tongue in half, you know, and halfway, when they're sparking, throw some water on them. You want to say I'm way out there on left field, you know what. Wait until you're beaten half to death and then tell me how you feel. Or someone you love you know is is murdered or raped or assaulted, because when you're raped, part of you is killed, because you'll never get it back. And you know what? I don't want to hear this crap that, oh, they did their time and so they're rehabilitated.
Speaker 2:Bullshit. No, they're not. There's no rehabilitation.
Speaker 1:There's no rehabilitation you know, and I'm sorry, but you go in there and literally it's like why is it that people say, oh, it's so inhumane, that people say, oh, it's so inhumane? We watched a student who was a school shooter cry and say please, don't put me to death, please don't put me to death. Well, listen you, little pissant. You picked up the gun it was premeditated. You took all the other weapons with you. You went into school where everybody just went in that day to get educated, and you opened fire and you killed people with straight malice. And then you have the audacity to cry like a little toddler in court, begging for your life how you should not be put to death. Why are you more important than those kids? You're not. So you need to be in solitaire. And then you know right to the death row, because it's ridiculous. I'm sorry, I just. No, don't be sorry. Death row because it's ridiculous. I'm sorry, I just.
Speaker 2:No, don't be sorry, and you're not ridiculous. I'm ridiculous too because in college I actually got a talking to by a political science professor because we had an assignment. I wrote a paper basically saying you know something you would agree with, which is that our tax dollars would be much better spent on, you know, veteran services or the homeless or other things, than supplying Charles Manson with cable TV and three meals a day and a nice place to sleep. Screw that air on the side of caution, I understand, but if there's enough guilt to put you in the slammer, see ya, goodbye you don't need to be, and what the hell does this?
Speaker 2:you get. There is no purpose, and so I'm going to take this one step further and kind of round us back into cause. We got, we got off to a rough start here, but here's the thing that people need to understand Anybody that abuses intentionally, harms. You know whether it's a rapist, a pedophile intentionally harms. You know whether it's a rapist, a pedophile, whatever.
Speaker 2:Every last one of them is a narcissist and people need to understand this, because a lot of people say, oh well, would this be narcissistic? No, they are serving themselves. They matter what they want and need, their fetish, their desire, whatever it is, takes control, overpowers, trumps everything in cute, including another human life. That is narcissism. One oh one right, they come first, always, will always have that. And you got to understand there is no habilitating, rehabilitating. They're not going to come around because, oh, do it for your child, do it for they don't care about anything but themselves. So this crying, weepy crap and the please, please, please, have mercy, it's all a damn ruse again to enact what they want. So here we are, we're going to answer all your questions. Enact what they want. So here we are, we're going to answer all your questions, but it does it all.
Speaker 2:Comes back, right back, but it all comes back, because this is all narcissism. Those are, and I will say this it's very sad. They say that only 25% of the male US prison population are identified narcissists. I say it's probably more like 99.9. If even that, it might be a hundred, because if you do something that puts you above somebody else, if you, if you, what you need is more important than another life, what you know, or another person's safety, security, any no.
Speaker 1:Well, let me ask you this last thing, and then we'll start the questions in in the comments. What do you think about pedophiles that get to go into their own population in the jails and prisons because they can't go in?
Speaker 2:here's the thing why are we protecting people? If you were out on the street and you were open, whether you're a rap, a pedophile or murderer or whatever you are, you are out. Basically, it's open season out in society. So why do you need to be protected when you're put away? Oh, because people might harm you for what you did. Oh well, if I walk out of my house, I'm, I'm in danger's way. If you're out there, it's so sickening to me. I have to say one more thing way, if you're out there, it's so sickening to me. I have to say one more thing. You know, I like to take all my little trips. Last year it was, it doesn't matter when it was, I think it was last year sitting on a plane, woman sits next to me and I you know I talk too much. So I start off a chat with her and find out she is from California. She actually rehabilitates as a job. She rehabilitates rapists, sexual offenders that are coming out of prison to prepare them for society again. And I took a deep breath.
Speaker 1:I wish I was on that flight.
Speaker 2:Oh I know, Because I mean, we hadn't even gone down the runway yet, Like we hadn't even the engines haven't even been started, and I'm like, oh, this is going to be a long flight. Yeah, Long and short of it. She firmly believed. She firmly believed that her work as a social worker, counseling them and doing this therapy for you know, a month before they're released or whatever, and they have to check in every now and then actually rehabilitates them. And I said to her how many of these people end up back in jail or end up sitting back across from you because they violated some parole?
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you that question.
Speaker 2:Committed another offense and she got real tight-lipped, she kind of pressed her lips together. I could tell she didn't want to say and she never did give a number, but she said well, yeah. Most of them said oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Most of them said oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So again I get a lot of heck when people say oh well, it's a narcissistic personality disorder, it's a mental health disorder, they can go to counseling. And no, they cannot. And if you go on social media and see these people that say, oh, I am a narcissist, I admit I'm a narcissist, I admit I'm a narcissist and I'm no, you're not, you're, you're just trying to get in on a trend, because no, narcissist would say I'm a narcissist and openly like it's all bull. So just be aware, people, I don't care what you call it Intentional harm Not my people Shouldn't be your people, they're toxic.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely Don't you love when we get all hyped up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know we do need to take like a breath after this. That was a lot though Children in ovens all the way to rapists, and now we've got people like we're just lining people up to put them in the chair. I mean, wow, good thing we're not running for any kind of office. I did state in the Unstoppable I mean, wow, good thing we're not running for any kind of office.
Speaker 1:I did state in the Unstoppable last night. I was like hey, president Trump, you want me in your cabinet?
Speaker 2:I'm right here.
Speaker 1:I'm right here. I'm just saying we need some kind of movement, because yeah, we don't mess around.
Speaker 2:We'll help out. We'll help get some tax dollars back.
Speaker 1:Right. You know what, and when people are like what's wrong with them? We've been through it, we live it and I'm sorry, nobody's gonna rehabilitate. You know exactly exactly, ass, sorry. Okay, I'm gonna stop saying sorry. She's gonna like give me that constant yeah, I don't like the sorry.
Speaker 2:We don't have to be sorry, nobody has to be sorry, and even if you disagree with us, don't be sorry for it. It's all okay, we're all entitled. Yeah all.
Speaker 1:All right. So here we go. I have always been the black sheep because I don't conform to gender norms. The constant pressure to behave a certain way has made me feel as if I'm suffocating. I have struggled for years to try to find my true self, with no support from my family. By the way, I should mention, I'm only 15.
Speaker 2:Okay, Girl, I hear you. I hear you. I mean that's my second book, right there, right from the get-go, even before 15. It was don't tell anyone, you're Puerto Rican, stop rolling your R's, you know. Then, putting me in Gap clothes instead of the frilly, you know, obnoxious print dresses grandma was trying to buy me and it was all about conforming. I had to play my role in the little happy family facade and, yes, suffocating. That's why my first book is called Gasping for Air. I mean, it literally just sucks your soul right out of you to live without authenticity. So here's what I'm going to say. And it's hard, because you're 15 and I was that girl too.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, you're stuck unless you have money to get a lawyer, roach infested you know God knows where, and put yourself in more danger living in an unsafe area, unsafe place, it's the hardest thing to say. But I was that girl. Just, I was doing every. I was saving every penny, and I mean every dollar, whether it came in a Christmas card or from babysitting the kid next door. Save your money. I was counting the days till I was 18 and I was free and I left. I had to get out of there and even after that, it's about cutting ties with the people. There's no way. If they don't accept you for who you are, that's their choice, by the way, just like you have a choice not to conform. That's their choice, by the way, just like you have a choice not to conform, but it's a tough one.
Speaker 2:That's their loss. Yeah, it is absolutely their loss. But the reality of the world is, I don't know why we feel that. You know it's funny because it occurred to me this morning. I think of you all the time, Victoria. I think of you all the time. I think of you all the time because it was something totally unrelated, but it relates to this is that you know, like, how you call your and our dad and our brother and sister and our family to be who they're supposed to be, which are people who love us and support us and encourage us, and all that.
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, some of us don't get that. We're born and we're like was I accidentally put in the wrong family? Did somebody take the wrong child out of the hospital? Family? Like, did somebody take the wrong child out of the hospital? I absolutely was that person. But the thing is, is that blood, sperm, eggs? None of that. There's nothing in any of that that says we're going to get along and we're going to love you and we're going to accept you. We're going to treat you how we're supposed to treat you, so that you can be all that you can be and achieve all your full potential.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I wish so 15, I, I, I again I'm sorry I was that girl, but just find outlets. For me, it was my music, it was dancing, it was doing the things that filled me with joy. Be who you are. You got to stick it out a few more years, but you will get there and you will be okay. And that is what I'm going to tell you is, you're going to be okay Because once you leave that house and you get out of that toxic environment and you surround yourself with people who are for you and who do give you all these things that you need, you know the love and the nurture and the care.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter if they're biologically related or not. You will thrive, you will just soar and I can't wait for that day for you. But again, believe me, I know it's hard, but you just got to stick it in a little longer. Unfortunately, kids don't have many rights and that's why I was just saying earlier is I went to the police, I went to the authorities, child services and I was stuck. So just save your money and get the hell out of there when you can. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Michael just stopped in, say hi, they just we're recording our. You can say hi, howdy, y'all Howdy. So just to piggyback off what you said, the family you make can be stronger than the family that made you Wow.
Speaker 2:That's deep, that is.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I can write that down. He's going to go take a nap.
Speaker 2:Well, it exhausted him to come up with such a profound thing to say, but that's the truth. You know, people have this idea family, family, that's your see. Where it came up for me this morning was that's your blood. Yeah, it was also the sperm that made me in the egg that made me. But that doesn't mean crap. That doesn't make you a parent. It doesn't make you my family. I get to decide who my family is. I don't have much biological family, I'll tell you that. But I'm fine being the black sheep and the outsider, because I actually see stuff for what it's worth and I'm not blinded by you know, I'm not even sure what it is with people. I guess birds of a feather stick together, but I'm not one of their birds. Or maybe I just didn't get glue on my wings, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did want to say to the 15 year old you know, one of the things that I did, piggybacking on what Dana said, was I started, you know, I was working and when I wasn't in school, I was working and I was studying and I had lost my grandfather when I was 15. And so I was really at a loss and so if I wasn't at school, I was working or studying, working or studying and putting away all the money, putting it all away, and it does make time go by faster. I know it sounds like, oh my God, I have three more years, but you've already done 15. So remember that. You know you've done 15, you only have three and you can have everything ready to go Like.
Speaker 1:You can go find a place, you can go look for an apartment when you're just about to turn 18. And that could be your biggest 18th birthday present ever. You can sign the lease on your 18th birthday so you can find where you want to go, go tour all the apartments and have your move in date on your birthday, so you can go that day. You know you don't have to wait until you're 18 in a week or 18 in two weeks. You can do it that day and sign a lease, and so just keep saving up and you can start packing when you're, you know, getting closer to time and there's things you can do to like make it go by faster, but just work and engage yourself in activities that keep you busy, and I know three years sounds like such a long time, but remember you've already done 15.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and thank you for saying that, victoria, because that's the thing, I was always that bit. And thank you for saying that, victoria, because that's the thing, I was always that and I'm actually trying to break that habit now at 48 of always staying busy so that I don't have to be around people or in that environment. But the keeping busy is key. And I'm going to give out two quick things, actually two solid pieces of advice, because thank you for jogging my memory.
Speaker 2:If you are going to college, study, study, study, so that maybe you get a scholarship somewhere Guess what you get to move away. Don't stay around home, move far away to college. Go away to college, stay in the dorm, make new friends, have fun, it'll be fabulous. If that doesn't work out for you because it did not work out for me that way I went to college, but unfortunately I was not. They wouldn't pay for me to go anywhere but real close to home and they wouldn't pay for me to stay in the dorm. You know what I did? I went and got a job at an apartment community in the leasing office. If you can talk and you can type a couple things on a computer, it's amazing. You get a free apartment. You get paychecks, you get commissions and they work around your schedule because they like having people to work weekends, so the managers and stuff don't have to. So just throwing that out there. There's always a way around everything.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. Was that, the both of them that you wanted to say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the two things Okay.
Speaker 1:We have another lady who said I've always been the sensitive one in the family. My emotions are often dismissed as overreactions and I am felt isolated in my own home. I cry alone in my room. I always feel like a burden. It has always been hard to see everybody else as they see me. Now I'm starting to believe what I hear and feel. Every day. I'm struggling to find myself in my place in this family.
Speaker 2:I feel like every one of these I'm just going to have the same answer. I get it. That was me too. If I was at home, lock myself in my room, I'd be in fetal position, crying at night. I just, I get it.
Speaker 2:And yes, my mother, oh my mother. I'm too sensitive, I'm overly emotional, I'm all this and that. No, you know what what it's called? It's called having a damn heart right and being a human being, which your mother is incapable of, as mine is. So here's the thing. I've said it a million times. I'm sure Victoria has said it.
Speaker 2:Some people are going to think you're too much of this. Some people are going to think you're not enough for that. You just haven't found your people because you're just right for whoever your people are, just like in your life you might meet people and think, oh, that's too this or too that they're not, you know, or they're too low key. Some people can be too low key for me. I don't do quiet very well, but you know it's okay, we're all different.
Speaker 2:But don't I internalized the whole emotional thing? I let my mother and my ex-husband convince me that I'm bipolar because I cried when I got sad. Yeah, when you're being abused. You get sad. It happens if, again, you have a damn heart. So don't be a tin man. Just buck up, be the brave lion. Watch Wizard of Oz a few times, you know you'll get. You'll get the gist of it. But just go to the Emerald City, get your hair done, get your dress on, put on your ruby slippers and be the glorious person that you are. And if you cry, you cry. And if you feel happy, then you laugh and you smile and be you, because somebody is going to look at you one day and think, oh my God, this is the most beautiful, most amazing human being I've ever met in my entire life and probably lots of people will be attracted to that. So to hell with whoever says you're too anything, you're just fine, right.
Speaker 1:How do you confront now we're going to do a couple of questions how do you confront feelings of anger and or betrayal towards your narcissistic parent, while seeking your own personal growth and healing?
Speaker 2:You can't. I mean tell me if I'm wrong, victoria, from your experience, can't? I mean tell me if I'm wrong, victoria, from your experience? But I think there's a saying that we see all over social media you can't grow in toxic soil or something to that effect. You can't. You can't get better in the environment. That's making you sick.
Speaker 2:Oh, you can't heal in the place that made you sick. You can't, yeah, whatever it is, but you get the gist of it and it's the total truth there is no way that you can even begin to heal unless you're out of that environment, not living with whoever it is and not dealing with them. Because, believe me, I thought I could, I thought that was what you did, and every time, every time I was around my mother or stepfather I mean, it might just be trembling hands or my heart racing and I'm sweating, or a straight up, full-blown panic attack, you know, because of some look or some little subliminal thing that was said that was especially crappy. No, you can't do it. You have to, just you have to cut ties. That is the only way out of any toxicity. What's your experience with that? I mean, do you agree or were you able to do anything really?
Speaker 1:I agree a million percent. You cannot heal in a place that made you sick. You just can't, you're just going to keep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like trying to be healthy and drinking poison it, just it's not. It's going to be counterproductive.
Speaker 1:Well, what I noticed is that anytime and I learned to check it because I noticed when I was younger that anytime I was around them, like you know, when you were you playing in the, in the orchestra and stuff if I had a great day, like I was captain of the debate team and we won, then I would be like I'm so excited I won, we won, we won and it was their mission to tear it down Like it was their mission, that they were not going to let you have that win.
Speaker 1:They were going to make you feel miserable. Oh, you probably only won because the other person wasn't any good or they didn't show up. Did they not show up? Did you win by default? Like these were things that you would hear constantly and it's oh, how did you win? Did the other person have laryngitis? You know, were you competing against the hearing impaired? You know, and it's like oh, I'm on this, like I did it, I did something great, you know. And then it's like, oh, we're going to pop the bubble, I'm not going to let you have that excitement.
Speaker 1:And I came to realize that that I couldn't go back to the house because it was never home. I couldn't go back to the house because it was never home. I couldn't get back to the house with joy and happiness over something I achieved, because it was going to be taken away and just walked all over. So I had to suppress it and not tell them. And I would tell my grandmother and when my grandfather was alive, I would tell him.
Speaker 1:And it was just. You know, you can't experience and share those moments because they're going to be ripped away from you and just shredded into negativity, because if you're having such a great day, you better be well aware that they're not going to let you continue it. They're just going to rip it apart. So that's what the saying means. It's like you can't heal in a toxic place. It's, you know, is that's exactly what it stands for, and so I agree with you a million percent. You just can't. You could never go in there and say, guess what I did today? I was first chair. You just can't. You could never go in there and say, guess what I did today?
Speaker 1:I was first chair or you know, this is what I because it wasn't recognized.
Speaker 2:No, and you're never going to grow and you're never going to heal if you keep, I say, drinking poison. But whatever it is, it's just not. You can take every vitamin in the world, but if you're downing it with poison, it's just, it's not serving your purpose and it's hard. I want you know. I want to say one more thing on that. Healing is so much harder. I think everybody thinks like you get a therapist and you go every Thursday at two o'clock and like you're gonna just suddenly feel better after a while. You're gonna feel better because somebody is listening to you, but you're paying. I mean, forgive me if there's therapists out there, but you're paying. I mean forgive me if there's therapists out there, but you're paying somebody to be listened to. So yes, you are being validated in a in a way, you're finally being heard and that's what it feels like for you and that is good, that's a good thing. But healing is hard work. Healing is what happens, that the solid tools you're practicing after whatever counseling or therapy you go to. It's having somebody lead you through all that and it's ugly and nasty and it makes you physically ill, it makes you some. I mean for me.
Speaker 2:For a while I thought I was going even more. I mean, I was going further down the rabbit hole that I had been and I'm like is this working? I think it's. I think something went wrong, what it's? You know I can't be helped, so you have to.
Speaker 2:Really, there's just no way. You have to be in at least an okay place, kind of a base level. You know, for me, when I got out of my first marriage, I was 45 and that's when I decided, okay, it's time to take care of me. So it was taking care of my health, making sure I was sleeping, eating okay. Then it was okay, I want to make my nails pretty red color. Then it was taking care, putting clothes on every day that was a big one for me and fixing my hair a little bit, like just feeling better about myself, building that self-esteem, rediscovering the little things that make me happy, like eating a pint of ice cream for dinner, whatever it is. And then it's like, okay, then I can be receptive. Then I'm in a place where I can start to process what was happening and understand it so that I could heal. But in the situation, there's no way.
Speaker 1:There's just no way Right. And I want to say that you know, don't feel like the first time you find a therapist and you go and sit down with them, that that's going to be the therapist for you, Cause I went through many Date them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got to date them Like, yeah, you do Not actually date. I have to be careful, cause somebody like your dad would actually yeah, thanks for making me on it.
Speaker 1:But, like, literally, you, you have to, you know, go through. I went through a few before I found one I was comfortable with. And don't go in there and think it's like a magical one that's going to fix it, because it doesn't. I went through nightmares and you know, because I did suppress a lot of it, and so they were bringing that back out, they were bringing it to fruition, they were bringing to the forefront. So, to do homework, to fix it, you, you have to, like, go through it and that's something you have to do. So don't think that, oh, I'm going to find a counselor, I'm going to walk in and talk, tell whatever, and then it's over, I'm healed. That's not it. There's work, it's process. I agree with Dana a million percent. It is hard, it is hard, but you're worth it, and just even stepping up and finding that therapist is a huge step in your healing journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm going to say I always have something else to say. You know the I've gone through many in 48 years, many, but you do, and they have to be you kind of, have to have a vibe. I say it's like dating because really you have to be receptive to each other, because if there's even a hint like oh, I'm not sure if they like me or if they understand me or whatever, or they believe me or believe me, there's going to be a barrier. You have to don't be shy about interviewing them and they should have the right to. I knows, actually, the person I'm, I'm still working with now is, you know, told me last time I talked to her. She's like, yeah, I had an experience where somebody was referred, but she's like I just I don't think I can help this woman for various reasons. It just was not, it was not going to be a good match. They have the right, but so do you, don't just pay somebody out of the yellow pages.
Speaker 2:And what I was really heading to say is that, you know, when I found this person that has really helped me tremendously, she was definitely my person and I knew it in a million ways. I almost choked when I saw how much, because insurance unfortunately doesn't cover this stuff and I'm a poor writer, um yeah, but I was like you know what? There's no price for my piece. I'll figure it out. What am I worth? Because what have I sacrificed, right that I haven't done for myself? This is literally life-changing stuff and there's no price for that. I'm not telling you to go give somebody a million dollars, but just know that it might be a little bit for people who are actually really that good. But don't, don't go to the cheap guy, don't go to the dollar general, the dollar store therapy, it's like get yourself somebody good, yeah.
Speaker 1:And Dana just really showed our age to everybody by saying the yellow pages, because people are probably now googling what are yellow pages? What are?
Speaker 2:what are yellow pages? There are still some people out there. Okay, what do people use now? Yell for google.
Speaker 1:Okay, google, I'm sorry, yeah like I saw the funniest video where people were literally like they gave teenagers a one of those old-timey can open and said open the can and nobody could do it, and set one of those old timey bell alarms and they couldn't do it. And here's a rotary phone, and you know, and it's like mind blowing, my goodness.
Speaker 2:And I'm like OK, well, I'm sorry I'm the old lady that still thinks the yellow pages, but yes, with Google, whatever, don't just go on maps, and I don't know what people do.
Speaker 1:How do you approach having a discussion about your upbringing with friends or possible new partners who may not understand the complexities of your past? That's a really good question.
Speaker 2:That is a really good question, but it makes me wonder who exactly this person feels like they need to explain themselves to, because it's a total trauma thing, and I mean, I am like the first person who will admit to being guilty, since I was a child, of feeling like I have to explain to anybody that I might possibly have any conversation with, like to overshare about things.
Speaker 1:I don't know I think 18 to 20 year old girl. Maybe she's starting to date, have a relationship and she's worried. Yeah, I have notes about each person and their questions.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I mean, I'm not even going to take that into account. Honestly, I just think it's a trauma response to overshare. I think, when the time is right and it organically, is something that needs although I don't know why it would need to be addressed unless you're making an issue of it because it sounds like that there's. Obviously, if she is that young, there's some healing that needs to take place, because the thing is and it took me a long time to learn I don't have to explain myself to anybody. You know now there are times, you know, I might get triggered still every once in a great while and look at my husband and say, ok, I'm going to stop, I'm going to take a deep breath. Let me tell you what just happened there. This is what was going on in my mind. You said this. I jumped to that. We're going to.
Speaker 2:I'm like I'll call a do-over as something we used to do when we were kids back in the seventies and eighties. Old people, yeah, sometimes we need a do-over, but if you feel like, you just need to like. But if you feel like you just need to like, tell people like, don't let what you've been through define who you are. Is, I guess what I'm trying to say. Just be you If it comes up organically, if it's something. I mean, obviously, if you're with somebody, you want them to know about your past. But that'll naturally come up when you talk about families and stuff.
Speaker 1:I don't know. That's kind of where I'm at. If they don't understand you or don't appreciate you or they kind of start like defacing you about it, then they're not the right ones for you and I wouldn't try to beg them to stay.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you for saying that, because that that is. You know, I've gotten a lot of oh, that's crazy, or that just you know it's too much. You know all these things people say and screw that if that's how they feel, then their family's probably going to feel that. You know, I know a little about that. So just be careful with that. But but don't ever shy away from who you are, because just cause you date somebody, even for a month or a year, one dinner doesn't mean they're the one Right.
Speaker 1:And what ways did you begin your purpose in breaking the cycle to ensure that you didn't turn out like your parents?
Speaker 2:Just made a choice, and that was probably when I was like 12 years old. I just made a choice there's no way in hell I was going to let somebody else experience a life like I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I was. I was younger. I kept saying all the time to my egg donor that you know I would never be the person that she is to my children and and she's like cause, you can't ever mount up to me. And she would always say those things and then it was like I wish I hadn't scared you instead of the other, you know, and.
Speaker 1:I was like nine the first time I heard that. But then, when Faith was, you know, seven, eight, nine years old, she, you know, would say to Faith all the time that you know, I'm so sorry that you got a mom like her, not a mom, you're not, you know, like a mom. And then, first time ever, I ever said anything back and she looked at me and she's like well, I'm sorry that your mom is perfect and she's the best mom in the world. And she, you know, and it was that guilt trip, you know, spinning it around, making myself the victim thing the first time ever. And I have to say I've never said this out loud to anyone.
Speaker 1:But she went on and on, you know, about oh, you're just perfect and you can do nothing wrong and you're just amazing and you're a better person than me and you're a better mom and you're, you know. And I looked at her, I said you're damn right. And I walked right by her and it was the most satisfying feeling for about 30 seconds and then, when I walked away, I felt like shit because, even though that's all I said was you're damn right, I felt horrible because I'm not that person, like no-transcript.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a tough one, you know, and I think that brings up the question. I think a lot of us have and I I went through this about a month ago where you're going to be in situations, even if you've cut off some of these people, where you know you're going to see them somewhere. You know it could be a wake or a funeral, it could be a wedding or whatever something, and you know, like I'm that person that like comes up with all kinds of stuff to say in my head, oh, they say this, or mutter that I'm going to.
Speaker 2:I, you know, like I want that stuff in my back pocket because in the thing I don't want to, no matter what and, believe me, they have plenty to say I mean, but I just smile and then I walk, walk away, walk past them, because I don't want to be that person. Oh, I want to tell them the stuff the stuff I gotta say is real good too and they're very specific to each one, but I don't want to be that person because that's what, that's what narcissists try to do. They're actually baiting you because they want you publicly, in front of even just one other witness to be that, that, to be that person that they say that you are so then they
Speaker 2:go and show everybody See, see, see, I was right, exactly, exactly so you got to just everybody see, see, see, I was right, exactly, exactly so you got to just grin and bear it. See, I'm so good, I, I have my practice smile, I just and it's hard sometimes because they've just said something or they mumble it under their breath and you heard it very clearly and you just keep it in, just smile and walk away, keep walking, hold your, hold your head up high and you know what you, being there, is irritating the F out of their demons, and that's all you need. So so think of that, that's what I think of and I smile. Yeah, like I'm just rubbing you wrong. I love this. Yeah, I'm just going to sit here and watch. I'm here all night.
Speaker 1:You should walk in with your book and just be reading. How do you find meaning and purpose in your experiences as you move towards making yourself healthier with your identity?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a loaded one out. One more time.
Speaker 1:How do you find meaning and purpose in your experiences as you move towards making yourself healthier, with your self-identity?
Speaker 2:I think it's just a matter of I mean, we hear this word authenticity all the time, but I think it's just a matter of being authentic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Once you figure out who you are and you have basically realized that the story you bought into about yourself, this idea they created about who you are, that you internalized and, I hate to say, you perpetuated. Know who you are and live, stand on your own two feet and live that truth that just suddenly makes everything better and it doesn't even matter what they say and it doesn't matter what they do, because you're just living your life and it's completely separate from what they're doing. I don't know if that really is what the person was going for, because that's a deep question, but the person was going for, Because that's a deep question, but I don't think I can add to that.
Speaker 1:Let's see what practices do you do daily or have found that are the most effective and addressing the emotional scars that you still are trying to heal from.
Speaker 2:The self talk for me. The self talk because still, I'm literally going to be 49 next month and I have come so far in my healing. But gosh darn, you know, like even this morning, for example, put on I I have. I've had an eating disorder since seventh grade thanks to my stepfather, cause he's an a-hole and I've been neurotic about it. I have stuck my finger down my throat. I have counted calories, I have starved myself, I have over exercised, I've done all of it and at my lowest I was 93 pounds and I was sickly and and now I'm not I've. I'm married to a 220 pound man that likes to eat a lot and we're in the Midwest, he's a meat and potatoes guy, so I'm gaining weight being married to him. But like I pulled on my pants this morning, one of my favorite pairs of leggings, because I live in black leggings. They were a little snug. I'm still wearing them. I'm like I can still fit into them, but they're a little snug. But what did I hear? I hear, I hear my stepdad, you better lose weight. Nobody's going to want you, nobody's going to love you. You're going to have big, wide thighs like a middle-aged woman, all the stupid. You're going to be fat Like your grandma starts going through my head and I just I looked in the mirror and I said you're beautiful, dana. You're healthy, dana, you're okay, dana, you're fine and Dana's hungry. Dana's going to go eat now and it looks a little ridiculous. My husband God love him, he doesn't get it, but he goes along with all these.
Speaker 2:I talk to myself, sometimes in the mirror, whatever, but for me it's the self-talk every day, throughout the day, and sometimes it's catching myself wanting to revert to an old pattern, an old way of reacting to something that was absolute self-sabotage and non-serving. And I remember, like a month ago, I was walking down the hall, I was ready to start stuff up with my husband and I stopped. I literally stopped in the middle of the hall and I said out loud we don't do that anymore. Dana, that's not what we're trying to do, because it wasn't. It was going to hurt me, it was going to hurt him, it was going to cause, you know, damage and it's not worth it. That's not who I am. So for me, self-talk and if you got to talk to yourself and talk in the mirror and talk, you know whatever it is, and there are times where you know we sometimes take a few, too many steps back where we got to go back to that 15 year old. That's still really pissed off.
Speaker 2:And I'm a rocker, if you, if you ever see me rocking, well, on the podcast, I'm usually rocking my cats, but sometimes I'm just in a chair and just kind of rocking Cause my great Grammy used to rock me to soothe me so like I'll just kind of be rocking, telling it's okay, we're going to be okay, we're going to be, like, taking deep breaths. And you know I've been called crazy, I've been told oh, you need help, you need help. No, I'm doing what I need to do to be okay, and everybody could go scratch, basically. So I say, do what you need to do, find what works for you in those moments. You know what about you, victoria? Is there anything you struggle with or do every day to get through?
Speaker 1:I have severe body dysphoria and I know it, and I used to be competing in martial arts and I was so athletic and I did everything under the sun. I was addicted to the gym as some people are to drugs.
Speaker 1:I was in the gym once, if not twice, a day, before work, after work, if I was traveling with work, then I would get a hotel that had a gym in it and if I was, you know, going to my office, I would only take the stairs. I never took the elevator. I was beyond obsessed, like every calorie. I knew every single song all day long. And you know, my sperm donor would say, oh, look at her, she's over there eating another roll. Like about my egg donor would say, oh, look at her, she's over there eating another roll. Like about my egg donor. And he was like you know, she really doesn't need to eat another roll. When you look under her boobs, she's got the baker's dozen of all the stomachs. Like he would say this and I was petrified of getting overweight. Like I was petrified. And I was a gym rat Like I can't even. You know, I wasn't one of those muscle huge bodybuilders, but I was lean and I was, you know, really tight and calories, I was crazy about it. Well, you know then, my step monster, who I call that to my stepsister. She was big, and so he would say it's in the jeans, it's in the jeans. One day you're going to get it One day. You're that to my stepsister. She was big and so he would say it's in the genes. It's in the genes. One day you're gonna get it. One day you're gonna get it. Well, I had gotten another bonus from work and I don't think I've ever publicly ever said this, ever. So here's a little tidbit about Victoria.
Speaker 1:A lot of people didn't know I went and got liposuction because I was petrified that I would gain weight and get big like them. And so I literally went and I went and they were like what are you doing? And the doctor was like, what are you doing? I said I want liposuction. He's like, well, we don't do the face and we don't do the breast, because that's a breast reduction. And I was like I want all of me, like all of me. And he was like, well, there's parts of you we can't do. And I'm like, well, I want everything you can. And you, you know, go get that done. And I was still obsessed with it. And then, after you know, the one thing it does is it does not allow you to look bigger and bigger and bigger if you do put on some weight. But after all of my surgeries I never took pain meds. I ate my emotion like, especially after my amputation.
Speaker 1:So my dysphoria, honestly, dana, is like I will go and and michael gives me such support and such shit at the same time. You know, you can imagine I will. He'll pull out a sweatshirt and he'll be like babe, why the hell do you have a sweatshirt? That's 3x like why? And? And I said well, you know, after all my shoulder surgeries and arm surgeries, I have to have something big to put it on. He's like you're still wearing it and it swallows you. You know it's swallowing you home and in my mind I can fit in it, because this is what I've heard constantly, you know, and I heard oh, if you know Freddy Krueger and the Elephant man had a baby, then that would be you and no man's ever going to want you because of all your scars. Or here's a Sharpie marker go spend a Saturday night connecting all the scars. You'll be busy for hours.
Speaker 1:Or the one that really got me is I had to have a breast reduction because of my shoulder replacement. My shoulder replacement wouldn't be able to hold. I was very chesty and that was like I always look for the silver lining and they're like oh, when you do a breast reduction, we do a lift and I'm like hey, and they're like so when you get older, they won't drop. And I was like, hey, there's my silver lining. So I was really excited. Well, hand to God, I'm not kidding.
Speaker 1:My sperm donor says to me well, what size are you going down to? And I'm like this is not a conversation that I want to have with you or what, because it's not your business. And he's like well, men, like big chested women, and I said again, I'm not having this conversation with you, it's disgusting and way out of line. My eyes say, and he literally kept well, what size are you going to go down to? You know how the scar is going to look, you know, oh, my God, yeah. And so after the surgery he would say you know, hey, what size did you go down to? What size are you now? You know, what do the scars look like? And I'm like A, I'm not going to show you. And B, it's none of your business. And he's like you know, now that you already have all these other scars and you're losing your boobs and that's not the adjective you use but it's like you're not going to have those either.
Speaker 1:What do you have to offer a man? I mean, you know, and these are things that constantly stuck in my head and now remember, my grandmother was my biggest like influence and back then they always wore dresses and you know all you know. And she's always say to me you don't go out there looking like a hoochie, you go out there and get respect because you attract what you dress like. So if you're going to go out there in booty shorts and your boobs hanging out, you're not going to get a nice gentleman, you're going to get something else. And so I always dress like covering.
Speaker 1:So and and here is something and Dana doesn't know this and I'm sure I'm going to hear it, that's fine, cause I need to hear it I have not shown any skin in 20 years. That is a huge and that is, hand to God, truth. The most skin you see is up to my elbows and that's only been in the last five years and that's because of all my operations with the amputation, um, because I have so many scars from my ex and the stabbings and surgeries, I cover myself. And so in june, july and august I'm covered from neck to ankle to wrists. Like I said, it's only been in the last five years.
Speaker 1:I don't own a bathing suit. I don't own a bathing suit. I don't own a tank top, I do not own t-shirts, I do not own shorts. I don't have any of that. I, I, you know I don't. And so my goal is that one day, very soon, that I will.
Speaker 1:Um that, you know, when I got married to Michael, I was dressed and ankle to wrist, and you know, when we renew our vows every year, it's the same thing. I don't own any of those clothes and I just, I just even you know, and my therapist have said hey, when you're by yourself, put on a pair of shorts, I don't own a pair of shorts or wear a tank top or a t-shirt when no one's home. I can't. I have not been able to do that and I have worked so hard for so long to keep faith here and to help other people. I haven't done that work on myself on that part. So, literally like you will not find a picture of me showing any skin. They don't exist because they're not out there. And I completely cover up because I feel like what I've always been told is that you don't offer anything enough to overcompensate for all the scars and the attention you'll be getting if anybody sees them. So I cover completely and that's something I'm still working on Dana's. Got her mouth like like she didn't know.
Speaker 2:I have so much to say here. I feel like I feel like this question has opened this up and I think that I know that eating disorders and and body image issues are very much a part of the abusive experience, especially when you're on the receiving end and you're a female. Because, yes, as you know, my, my childhood was much the same. You know, a peanut butter jelly sandwich at six years old, I was told, was going to make me fat and nobody would want me. It's just interesting that I mean, I think more people are going to relate to you because more people have the issue of they feel that they're not desirable because they think they're overweight, whereas I had this opposite issue, that I was being told so much that nobody would want me, that I was wearing very provocative clothes, like even at school, in high school, you know, there were a few times the principal pulled me aside and said go home and change, or go put your gym clothes on, because even that's better than what you're wearing Like, because I thought that that's what attracts a man, because I didn't want to believe that my stepfather, you know, when he said no man would want me. God, I'm going to cry now because so, even to this day. I have this weird issue and I have I have never said since you opted something up, I'm offering. I've never offered this out, ever. Only my husband knows this, and this is where he's really cute, and we're very active intimately, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I do, um, even if two or three days go by, goes by, I start to think that I gained too much weight. Maybe I gained a pound and I should starve myself because he doesn't want me anymore, and it's my stepfather in my head making me feel that all I'm worth is my body, and that's why all I I was the girl in the booty shorts and the half tops. And I still am at 48, because I can, but it's it's really hard. Interestingly, because I know there's a few other skinny girls out there that can relate to this we focus so much on the bigger girls that the little girls have a lot of issue too. So at my smallest I was 93 pounds and let me tell you the beautiful thing about that it's not healthy, but damn, do you look good in a bikini and you could put just about anything on and look good. And that's when my husband and I started dating. And so, as I've gained weight, now I'm feeling like, oh my gosh, when we go on vacations, that bikini that I wore the first time we went you know it's a little, you know I I don't like the way I look in it. So, like it's interesting, your therapist tells you wear a tank top or whatever.
Speaker 2:This past July we had a vacation, we were going to go to Cabo and I was like I don't know if I want to wear a bikini, like maybe I need a one piece because I've gained for me. So I felt in my head I might as well have been a whale, even though it was maybe 10 pounds, which is healthy, because I'm over 100 pounds now, which still is not a lot, and I know that in tech, intellectually. But I forced myself every single day, instead of wearing clothes leading up to this vacation, I wore my bikini. And I mean my stepson, thank God, knows I'm a little weird and I do weird crap, so he doesn't question, I'm walking around in a bikini 24 seven, because I made myself look in the mirror and be here's that self-talk, say you're fine, honey, you're fine, look at you, you're fine. Nobody's going to be staring at you when there's, you know, all these other women on the beach and and look at all the women I wish you know.
Speaker 2:I remember being on a beach a few years ago and everybody making fun of this woman and no joke, she had to been 400 pounds, ease. I mean, she was like my 600 pound life and I don't mean that in a rude way, but just to express large. And she is in a thong bikini, like she and one of these people that just like to own it. Man, she owned that beach. She had her nails done, she had the big straw hat, she was having a good time, she was killing herself, exactly.
Speaker 2:And I'm like I want. I'm looking at myself like what the hell am I complaining about? But it's funny how I can think I'm so big and you're thinking you're too big, like we all just get made to think that we're so fricking big and undesirable. No, we're not. And God love these men who love us and want us to be healthy. My husband every day tells me no, you look good, you don't need to lose, you need to gain more weight. You know you need to keep going with this. He doesn't care if I'm running around in Daisy Dukes and half tops, he just wants me to be healthy, as your husband wants you to be.
Speaker 2:But for anybody that's going through this body image stuff, you know this usually is something that comes from abuse. But just don't think that you know it's just you. I mean, I also. I didn't go through with it, victoria, but this is something else that I've I've never told anybody. Only my son and my husband know this.
Speaker 2:But last year, early last year, I scheduled a tummy tuck surgery and the doctor actually called me the week before the surgery and he's like I'm looking at your chart. He's like you're 99 pounds. And I'm like, yeah, he's like, okay, we, I'm good, we're going to have a video call. And we went to a video call and you know he's like okay. I turned here, like what am I? Where? Am I doing a tummy tuck? And I showed him.
Speaker 2:I'm like oh well, it's sticking out a little bit here and it makes me look bad. And he, literally, he's like honey, I'm not, I'm not doing it. He's like if you really want me to do it, I'll refer you to somebody else. But he says I'm not putting a knife on that body. He's like you need to. He goes, you need to go get some counseling and if you really want to go, do some keto and go to the gym get it toned up, but he's like I'm not doing it, but here you had it and I was about to have it, and it doesn't matter how big or how little you are, this is what these people drive us to.
Speaker 2:And that kind of makes me sick, because if you look, if you knew what my stepfather looked like and I've seen pictures of your dad, I mean, we're not talking about Brad Pitt. Although I'm not a Brad Pitt person, I'm not a top either, yeah, I mean. But whoever you think is hot like these are not men that are remotely like, not even close, like nowhere near, like I wouldn't look at them twice, like. So why then are we internalizing this and going to these lanes to convince ourselves that they're right? And this doesn't just go with body stuff. This goes with everything about our deficiencies and our capabilities and our intelligence and our whatever. Yeah, I'm sorry we went off on a whole thing there, but it's a big subject. I think people need to hear about this and if anyone out there, if you have struggled with your body image or eating disorders, please I'd love to hear from you. I mean, I think it's something of interest that we could go into a little further.
Speaker 1:I do too. I mean, I remember this one time I was getting ready and I had gotten myself ready to go to court and of course, my sperm donor wasn't going. And I was getting ready to go to court against my ex and I put on a suit and I was always confident in a suit and I was ready to go. And he looked at me as I was getting ready to walk out and he said to me you know, back in the day, a long time ago, you used to be able to turn heads and, walking out that door, the only thing you're going to do is turn stomachs. And every part of me I had built up this. I've got this. I'm going to court. I'm going to be in the room with this son of a bitch who literally took me to death's door time and time again, who tried to kill my kid. I've got this. I'm not pregnant anymore. He's a piece of shit. He openly admitted he would never have hit me if I wasn't pregnant. I'm not pregnant anymore.
Speaker 1:Let this stupid Mo, you know, go ahead. I'm, I'm, I'm ready. Let's go, like I was in that frame of mind and here he comes and says that you know, one thing you're going to do is turn stomachs. And I was like I just want to go upstairs, throw off my suit, put on some baggy clothes that show I'm insecure and go. And I was so proud of myself, dana, cause I was like I'm leaving in it and I went and I I literally went. Anyway, I was smart enough to bring my makeup because I cried the whole way to court and I was like, damn it, you know, I had this ready to go and I have to just swallow it and and wait until it's over and then scream all the way home or back to the house. I have to scream all the way back.
Speaker 2:I'm so sorry you had to go through that. If I was a violent person, I swear to God I would gather up our million listeners or 2 million and we would go just beat his ass. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1:My counselor actually said she wanted to punch him in the face, and I think that's the first and only time I ever fell in love with a woman.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but honestly, I mean for all women, I just Well, he's not very nice to your brother either about your brother's sexual identity. So I mean I don't know. I think everybody could. We could probably stand in a line and each take a swipe at him. But gosh, I'm so sorry. That's just such a vile thing to say to anybody, but especially when you're going to court and really need to be focused and in that mindset, what a piece of crap.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then find out later on that that piece of crap put that piece of shit right in my life. I mean that's right, that's a doozy, it really is. It's real, oh, that's huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's huge and it should be surprising, but kind of isn't, because I feel like a lot of times narcissists will work together, even if they don't like each other, or they think they're the other one's competition If they want to take you down. It's amazing. I've seen this in my life a couple of times where I'm like, wow, I am such a force of nature that I can be a conduit for people who hate each other to come together, you know, with the joint intention of taking me down. But I'm like, I may be a little, but I'm like Mighty Mouse I don't go away Does anybody old.
Speaker 1:Remember Mighty Mouse? Well, I'm getting in with this one question. It's my question actually, because it's actually kind of ironic. We were talking last night on Unstoppable. I said to Michael. I said you know, here's the funny thing and I don't mean it in a humorous way because we don't want to be taken out of context, we try to be funny Right Is the fact that, like here's people who don't even give a crap about you and they like, with faith, when she was in the ICU and she was literally a death door and she was coding constantly, and they were like here's your chaplain, you want to make her comfortable.
Speaker 1:Like neither side of our family, neither side of mine or my husband's family, reached out, nothing, and it's like. And then when we ran into them after nothing and it's appalling, but yet now who's going to take care of them because they're getting elderly? You know, right, you don't think about that. Like, he has tainted the bridge with my brother. He is, you know, he has no relationship with my step monster. You know now, on the holidays, if, if it was in fact, who he married, is the person that's not allowed on their property.
Speaker 1:You, you know, when I was still around we had three christmases. We had the christmas where it was my sperm and egg donor myself, faith. Then they had a christmas where it was sperm and egg donor and my brother, and then my stepmom, or my stepmom, my egg donor went and had a christmas with her, her daughter, and because you, none of us, could be around one another. So there were all these different holidays. Well, how is it going to be now, like birthdays, thanksgiving, all of that. How is that going to play out for them now? And they're getting older and older, who's going to take care of them? You know, do these people think like your stepdad and your mom?
Speaker 1:who's going to take care of them when they get, they get older?
Speaker 2:Oh, my brother will. But you know what the thing is is that I love that. It speaks so much to who you are that you even think about that, because I'm at the point and maybe I'm just a horrible person. But I don't, I I don't care, though I don't worry about it. I don't think about it because, the way I look at it, I guess because I've seen people you know who worry about their adult children, that have special needs, that oh what if something happens to me? I'm one of these people that's like okay, they're not going to like be thrown on the street and be left to die Like somebody somewhere. There are people with good hearts that you know. Regardless of whether somebody's deserving or not, they will make sure you always have food and shelter, you'll be taken care of. So I just don't think about it.
Speaker 2:But I did have a conversation before my mother cut ties with me this final time. That has been years now, but I remember having a conversation with her and I said very much the same thing you just said. I said you know what? That's fine. I'm glad your husband has you, I'm glad you choose him above your own daughter and over everybody everywhere, and that you are subservient to him, as he wants you to be. But I said, hopefully you don't die first, because he is going to be very, very alone. He is going to be very alone with the way he's treated people. But but to answer your question, whether it's my stepfather, your father, whoever you know as well as I do, they have enough people that they have convinced that they're a good guy or they're a good woman, or whatever, and they're so wonderful that there will be somebody that steps in and that person will be oh, you should be ashamed of yourself because you're the daughter and you should, you should, you should. Yeah, well, they should have to and they didn't.
Speaker 1:So, right, I'm not either right and you know my sperm donor used to say in front of his wife all the time I hope I live five minutes longer than you oh my gosh. He would say that he's like because I'm not giving your child, and he said my, her daughter, a dime. And you know there's a lot more to that. He's talking about his stepdaughter, but there's a lot more to that. But he, he talking about his stepdaughter, but there's a lot more to that. But he, he would always say I just want to live five minutes longer than you.
Speaker 2:So you can't Right Give me. But my God, I can't say I'm sorry. Well, you know what? After having read narc narc, I mean, I'm just I, I, I it's. It should never surprise me to hear stories about other narcissists, but they always do surprise me. They always surprise me because they're always they're, they're so skillful and they get creative in how they they taunt us. But what a piece of crap, sorry.
Speaker 1:I can't say it you can't say it.
Speaker 2:I know, I know.
Speaker 1:I know. Well, I want to thank you. We're going to keep getting through these and read them and keep going and we're getting more and more every day and you know if you have other things you want to ask us or tell us or talk to us about.
Speaker 2:Please, by all means, just reach out and let us know and we'll make sure that it gets out here and you have any last thoughts for today?
Speaker 2:I just want to say I feel like the questions started out very basic, but lately, my gosh, these questions are very deep and challenging and they're phenomenal. But I am so thankful that we have listeners that are brave enough to share their stories and share their struggles. And, you know, again, we want to hear about your little wins too, because there are times when you you know, I again I'm a big self-talk person, so when I have a little win, I actually pat myself on the back, like you know, throw my arm over my shoulder. I wouldn't have to do that with you too. Once in a while, give you a virtual pat on the back for you, but it helps. You have to acknowledge when you know you got through something okay, or you didn't have the reaction that they wanted, or you know you were able to breathe through it and you're good, like you got, to give yourself that credit and not just focus on the yucky stuff. But there is so much yucky stuff to unravel with narcissists, so keep coming at us with questions.
Speaker 2:We love it and we love all of you for listening and thank you and share these episodes with anyone you think might be in a situation where some of our answers might be helpful.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Cause you never know what little nugget helps, you know. And I think that, going on, what you said is that maybe in the beginning people were kind of, you know, a little worried about what they might hear from us. And then they're seeing our true, authentic self. They're seeing that we've been through this ourself and we've walked these walks and then these journeys, and they are now feeling more comfortable to come out and talk to us. And that's why I think these questions, some of them, are just like really hard. That's why I put little notes, like, you know, approximate age and female, male, you know, so we can kind of decipher our answers based upon how do we do this for, like, the 15 year old girl, how do we make sure she understands we wouldn't give the same answer to a 50 year old, right, right, exactly.
Speaker 1:And I think that people are starting to see that we're not just another podcast, that we're not just, you know, talking to hear ourselves, that we're actually trying to make a difference and we're trying to help and we're trying to, you know, bring awareness to this. And this is just, you know, this is awful, and they're not alone and they feel alone and we both know what that feels like and I think people are realizing that we are their people and we're here and we're helping and we will do whatever we can to help and I appreciate more than anything. I appreciate their trust, because that's a very hard thing to give.
Speaker 2:I agree with that a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:So thank you to everybody and thank you Victoria as always, you know I love you, I love you. I said before she's my ride or die. She is All right, so we will catch you next time. Thanks everyone, bye.
