A Contagious Smile Podcast
A Contagious Smile is a powerful platform dedicated to uplifting and empowering special needs families and survivors of domestic violence. Through heartfelt stories, we shine a light on the journeys of extraordinary individuals who have overcome unimaginable challenges. Their triumphs serve as a testament to resilience and strength, inspiring others to rediscover their own inner light. Each episode features candid interviews with survivors, advocates, and experts who provide valuable resources and insights to support those on their own paths to healing and empowerment. Join us as we celebrate the power of resilience, the beauty of shared stories, and the unstoppable spirit of those who turn adversity into hope. Let us guide you in rekindling your spirit, because every smile tells a story of courage and transformation.
A Contagious Smile Podcast
NARC NARC WHO'S THERE, HELP, I'M GASPING FOR AIR TRIGGER WARNING Resilience and Authority: Unpacking Narcissistic Family Dynamics, Healing from Trauma, and Embracing Self-Care
TRIGGER WARNING Can a brush with authority leave lasting impressions on our perceptions? Join us as we kick off with an update on Victoria's impressive recovery from surgery, showcasing her strength and humor amidst the post-surgery hurdles. Our conversation flows into a deep dive into the influence of narcissistic family dynamics on how we view authority figures, shaped by personal interactions with law enforcement and military roles. We reflect on the importance of acknowledging individual actions and experiences rather than generalizing entire groups, emphasizing the nuanced perspectives upbringing can impart.
Unpack the systemic challenges within military and law enforcement communities, particularly around domestic violence. With a personal recount, we challenge the oversimplified narratives about why victims remain in abusive relationships and highlight the calculated planning required for a safe escape. Self-expression and healing take center stage as we share experiences of reclaiming emotional freedom, self-love, and the journey through narcissistic family trauma. Indulgence in small pleasures becomes a revolutionary act of self-care, underscoring the importance of mental and emotional well-being.
Family dynamics and the legacies we choose to build are touched upon with heartfelt anecdotes about feeling overlooked and the role of grandparents. We explore the bittersweet reality of complex familial relationships, contrasting cherished moments with more challenging interactions. Wrapping up with a playful exchange on iconic TV characters and imagining our lives on the big screen, our unique chemistry brings a light-hearted end to a deeply resonant episode. Tune in for a thought-provoking exploration of resilience, authenticity, and the pursuit of healing.
Good morning, good afternoon or good evening, wherever you are. Yes, this is Dana. Victoria is here with me as well. She kind of has half of a voice. She's doing well, but she's just back from surgery. But the warrior, she is literally people she had surgery yesterday, left the hospital, refused to have painkillers or anything, was actually awake during the surgery and she is laughing and she can talk, but we want to give her voice a little bit of a rest. So here we are and thank you for joining us, as always.
Speaker 2:Of course, are you kidding? I actually sent her a video yesterday. I look like the creep keeper.
Speaker 1:And you did not. Actually, I showed my husband I'm like, this woman says she looks rough and I'm like oh my gosh, this is kind of rough to you.
Speaker 2:I've got bruises.
Speaker 1:No, honey, beautiful and stunning me like rough for me, like I'm the girl that climbs out of the tv in that movie, the ring. And so when you're saying rough, I'm expecting something of that caliber and you send me what you send and I'm like you're beautiful. If I liked women, I'd be like oh, look at me getting a video from this hot chica. But no, not rough at all.
Speaker 2:You know who got my drugs. Obviously they're like eight, nine, 900 stitches later, whatever, and they take muscles from one place and move into another and thread more nerves and did this and do that, four hours long, just on the table alone.
Speaker 1:You are one of a kind, my dear, literally. I say it all the time, but you are a beast, you are a warrior, you know. You're bionic. You have said it before but, I don't know how you're doing it, but we're very glad you're here and so glad that surgery went as it was supposed to and that you're obviously recovering Okay, Because I have a huge fill in my life.
Speaker 2:I got up all night Like I was pregnant, was pregnant again, like eight months pregnant. I was peeing every five minutes. I was like oh my god. And then I try to get comfortable and I can't because my titanium shoulder came up arm over my head and you have to keep it elevated. And as soon as I get comfortable I have to pee again and I'm like I'm just sitting on the toilet. Forget it just screw it.
Speaker 2:I'm not moving, I'm here, done, yep so that. So that was fun, all right. So please forgive the fact that I sound like I ate eight frogs, and you know I didn't kiss a toad, but anyway. So I might be a little, but we're going to go for it. So how has your journey through the complexities of familiar narcissism influenced the way you perceive authoritative figures in your life today?
Speaker 1:Wow, whoever wrote that really crafted that with lots of big words. We got a smart one out there. Yes, that was a lot. I think I was so intrigued at the textbook format of that question. I'm not sure what the question.
Speaker 1:So authority figures, I mean, for me that's probably I hate to say I know your voice is a little scratchy, but that's probably a better question for you, because what you went through your ex that did what he did to you and to Faith when she was unborn and still in the womb I mean he was in law enforcement and you want to talk about authority. I mean, I have not had any issues with authority personally, but I think everybody's situation, as much as we go through similar things, effects are the same and a lot of the narcissistic behavior is the same, but a lot of the narcissistic behavior is the same, but a lot of time our experiences are unique in that way, as is our perception of them. But I personally, my issues are with those specific people. I personally have been able to separate the fact that I don't lump like. I'm not one of those people that says, oh, all men are this or all authority is. You know what I mean. No, I know who exactly hurt me and why, and it is what it is. But I, thankfully plus my personal aspect is, you know, my biological father is a retired Chicago cop and I mean, he's an amazing human being, he's such a good man and you know.
Speaker 1:So I don't have that relationship with authority being negative, aside from the judge that didn't think that my ex, coming after me with a knife and a gun, warranted an emergency order of protection, to which I would argue well, let him come to your bedroom or your door in the middle of the night and use weapons, but that would be a different story. But other than that, I don't have any problem. I mean, I think we're all different. It's an individual, case by case basis. But I know a lot of people do have issues with authority. But having your experience, which was much more severe and with somebody that was in an authoritative position, probably abused it, obviously, what's your take on that?
Speaker 2:Well, he wasn't the only law enforcement, he was military. And what a lot of people don't realize is that I was never attracted to the badge. A lot of people say women are attracted to the badge uniform and I grew up with the uniform. My parents were both law enforcement.
Speaker 2:My parents were both Well, I know that they my step, my sperm donor was one of the highest ranking law enforcement officers in the state and so yeah, so when I follow his footsteps to have something to get along with him about, I would never say hey, dad. I would say his rank and his last name because I didn't want affiliation at all, that people would recognize I was his child. So I never put it out there, I never told people, um, and then later on now you know how he got my ex in my life, um, so there, I always reiterate very strongly that you know there are great military people and I constantly thank them for their service and they are pieces of shit. There are great officers who put their lives on the line and then there are pieces of shit. The domestic violence abuse is much higher in law enforcement and military than in a regular household and it's sad. And what I tell people all the time? If one in three report it, how many aren't reporting it Exactly? How many are turning their heads from it? I would say I'm much better now, like when I first, you know, went out.
Speaker 2:I took on the military because they sided with him, which is very, very, very common, that they side with the soldier and um, I remember going to the grocery store and there was an um, a military person in their bdu standing out there collecting money. And I looked at him and I was like what is this for? And there was a military person in their BDU standing out there collecting money and I looked at him and I was like what is this for? And he was like for mental health, for the mental health of the soldiers. And I looked at him straight face. I said what about the wives you beat? What about the children that you beat and leave? I was like I guarantee none of that money is going for them, none. And I said I don't know if you're one of them or you're not, but you're very standoffish and you're rude about it and you know, if not, I would have thanked you for your service Whenever my husband and I go anywhere and somebody has on some kind of hat or something.
Speaker 1:we thank them for their service, but you know, not everybody's that way.
Speaker 2:The hardest call an officer goes on is a domestic violence call, because you don't really know what you're walking into and a lot of times the victim will then no, don't take him, he's my husband, I love him, or whatever the case may be, I've learned and I know this is horrible to say that what I'm about to say, but a and I'm sure you might agree but a temporary protective order or a temporary restraining order, is nothing but a piece of paper that's going to ignite that son of a bitch into a new flame, because you know, yeah, you might get them out of the house for a moment, but they're going to come back and you have to keep that paper with you on all times. It becomes invalid if the staple comes out. It's so, it's so stupid, like you're trying to save your life, but the staple came out when he tried to rip it out of your hand, so now it's null and void. I mean, what do you think that's going to do to him? Not a damn thing.
Speaker 1:No, and they don't take it seriously. It's hard to take seriously anyway. I mean, after a knife and a gun, I, when I finally, after three court dates three he finally gave me something and it was for him to stay 10 feet away from me. I was 93 pounds and I'm five three, I'm like. I literally looked at her. I said he could throw a two by four at me from 10 feet away and harm me. Yeah, he could throw anything at me. He could shoot me from that far away. I mean I felt bad because the bailiff even I mean he handed me tissue because I was obviously very emotional because this is my life and my neighbors and they're testifying that yes, he in fact came over there and told her and her husband that he was planning to kill me. And here we are.
Speaker 2:It's a terrorist threat right there. It's a felony.
Speaker 1:Well, not to mention there was stalking there. I mean, there was a million things. But you know what she said. Well, after a 25 year relationship, I just find it odd that all of a sudden you're reporting all this. And I said, because I've been scared of him, I get so tired of people doing this whole oh well, it couldn't have been that bad. I've even had somebody commented on one of my YouTube videos that, oh, it couldn't have been that bad if you stayed 25 years Maybe. I was effing afraid.
Speaker 1:It took me from the day I realized, yes, I am definitively done. It took me 15 years to leave. Why? Because you can't just walk out. Some people can. But I had to be careful about it and I had to make sure that I could take my kid and I, you know, I am a type A and I am a prep. It's not a control thing, it's a preparation thing, and it was about making sure that I could take care of my son, making sure I'd have us in a situation where I wouldn't have the threats that he made, you know, fulfilled, about taking our son away from me and and all this other crap. But you know, I think that's the thing I think we have to remember.
Speaker 1:Just all in all, to get back to the question, people are people. Yes, narcissism is so. I mean law enforcement, definitely, medical profession there's some, you know, politics there's a lot of places where you will see an influx of narcissists but basically any position where people have power, where they have praise and adoration because, believe me, I have a few in my life that, oh, they love to be on. There's one that she annoys the hell out of me. Honestly, she's not even that important, but she is on the board of everything at the library, at the school, at the county, at the this, at the that, if there is a place to sit at a table and have a vote on anything, or say in anything, and it makes her look so, oh, look at me and all my community involvement and all this and that, and they love that. They love that because it makes them look good to other people, it makes them look charitable.
Speaker 1:And, oh, she's such a busy lady. And look at her donating all her time to all these causes and all these things. No, it's all bull. It's all bull. You know, you and I give our time every single day, hours of our time, and we don't get the glory. We don't want the glory, though it's not about that. We do it because it comes from our hearts, and that's the difference between a narcissist and a normal human being that's just trying to be a human and get others through their life, you know. So, yeah, you'll see that with authority, but don't lump them all together, cause I agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know there's good ones and bad ones, but you know there's good cashiers at Walmart and bad ones too, so it can be any profession packet, like right after the incidents transpire and you're putting the packet together and you're trying to get everything done and yeah, and they say you know, do you really believe that that he's a harm or threat? Well, when he charged at me in the courtroom, the first thing the judge did was haul ass out. So are you scared of him? You got bailiffs and stuff. Why are you?
Speaker 1:all afraid of what he's gonna do?
Speaker 2:if, yeah that the case, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever why you would act that way.
Speaker 2:if you weren't scared, right? So you're a grown man and you hide in your chambers or you have the bailiffs going in front of you. Why are you scared? I'm sitting here on the other side of the table, you know. So it is different for all Florida figures. I think everybody handles it differently, but the average woman does go home seven times when they're in an abusive situation. They can't just get out and leave because they don't have a foolproof escape plan, which is what some of the things I do and help get done, so that they can go and not worry about it and come back. My husband, michael, has stopped in here, I guess, to see what I'm doing. So we've already apologized to everyone, babe, because of me being 24 hours out and we're recording, so what?
Speaker 1:Howdy y'all and thank you for coming on the show again, dana.
Speaker 2:It's our fault. Hi there, this is our series.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm sorry to interrupt y'all. Well, it's okay. It's nice to see you, glad to know you're checking on your honey over here. I just just don't wear a voice out too much. That's why I'm offering a cup of coffee or hot tea or something.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. I have tea, thank you. Are you enjoying your video game? That I'm totally against. I've been helped. Your daughter, I'm cooking now.
Speaker 1:She's my daughter, okay, great, I'm cooking like a I've done help to your daughter. I'm cooking now, now she's my daughter.
Speaker 2:Okay, great, I'm cooking like a good husband. Do you hit your head? No, they're making coffees with their latte machine, cappuccino machine.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's exciting.
Speaker 2:He wrote me a check yes or no. Like you're in high school Check yes or no. Do you want coffee? Do you want tea? Or check yes or no. Like you're in high school check yes or no. Do you want coffee? Do you want tea or dean? Out of the above and I'm like, so I apologize to everybody for that. Um, next question what, what? What realizations have you come to know about your own emotional needs as a result of understanding the family dynamics you finally escaped from?
Speaker 1:Wow, people with these questions. You know, honestly, I've learned actually not to ask myself these deep questions. I think life is just personal to everybody and we all go through our own experiences. And you know, I know how I feel, I'm very in touch with how I feel. But I also, as a child growing up with two narcissistic parents and a golden child brother, I was never allowed to feel, because feelings make the narcissist, I don't know, somewhere in there. I don't know if they just feel guilty or if they're even capable of that, but they don't like having to see the effect of their actions, you know, especially when they're not nice effects. So I couldn't feel, I couldn't cry, I couldn't. I mean, you've read my book Choking on Shame. You know what happens when I cry or get emotional Nothing good, nothing good. And and I say that, but yeah, if anyone wants to know, nobody, I don't think anybody has parents like mine that that would go to the extremes that they did to make sure that I did not express any emotion.
Speaker 1:But they probably couldn't risk me having emotions openly in the house, outside of the house, because then people would know the truth. But it's out there now. But that's the thing is that I've always been very in touch with how I feel and I think it was just a matter of once I was out of there and even while I was still at home under 18, just validating myself like I have a right to feel how I feel. Everybody has a right to feel how they feel. You know, there are even people that I know that say, oh, but that person's got mental problems or depression or they're schizophrenic, and I'm like, yeah, but to them their feelings are their feelings and to them they are real and that is what they are operating out of. So why are we judging and telling people that's the biggest word I want to get out of this whole vocabulary? In the English language and every language is should, nobody should be doing this or that.
Speaker 1:We all have the choice and the power to decide what we want for ourselves, and I like knowing how I feel and having the right to my emotions. Now, how I act my emotions out and how they're expressed outwardly. Well, we want to do things that are somewhere between societally appropriate and still having some self-respect, but still honoring our authentic selves. So that's been my thing in life is trying to find that balance between those things. But you know, we all have a right to that stuff and I really don't care anymore. But it's taken a lot of therapy and a lot of healing to get to the point where I don't care if my mother thinks I you know, I'm too sensitive or overly emotional, or if my step. I don't care what anyone thinks. Really Some people are for me, some aren't for me. I'm not for everyone and I'm OK with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, who wants to have that set at the table?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I'm good with it. I'm good with a free chair. And what ways do you celebrate your accomplishments that you have made after being overshadowed and the narcissistic set up by a narcissistic parent?
Speaker 1:overshadowed and the narcissistic set up by a narcissistic parent. Yeah, I think it's just. It kind of is the same thing I was just saying, just kind of like honoring myself and having that self-respect that back. You know, I mean one thing that I do a lot more now because my self-esteem, just I never had self-esteem. I can't even say it was ripped away from me, because it was basically taken from me before I ever had any. And so for me, here I am in my late forties, like trying to have self-esteem and I've come a long way in the last few years. But I will literally reach over and pat myself like literally on the back and be like good job, mom or man, I can bake a mean banana bread or you know, that was a really good idea or good advice I gave that person or man. We rocked that podcast and you see me once in a while like high fiving you or I clap. I will openly be like yeah, I don't know, but I'm one of those people I'm very.
Speaker 1:You know. My mother said I'm overly emotional and overly expressive. Maybe I am and whatever, but that's how I do me. Other people have different ways, but you know, whatever it is, just I think you have to do your own thing, have a happy dance, treat yourself once in a while when you have an accomplishment, like I don't sit around and wait for people to buy me, I can't even talk anymore. Buy me flowers, like if it's a special day, like Mother's Day, my birthday, whatever I go to the store and I pick my own flowers that I like and I put them in a vase and it makes me happy, it makes me smile. I don't wait around for other people to do stuff for me. I fulfill my own needs.
Speaker 2:Yes, I agree We've had some interesting questions that we've had a couple of this what is your favorite colors? Because colors tell a lot about people.
Speaker 1:I whoever wrote that in you are my person, like literally you are my tribe. No, this is, I'm gonna say this. That is the one question that I always ask people. If I'm just meeting somebody, I will find a way, because I agree what color the person loves. Plus, you always want to know because it doesn't matter what you buy them as a gift or what you send them, if it's a card, whatever if it is their favorite color, they will love it. And some people you don't know what somebody's not favorite color is, because there is a least favorite color, but yeah well, I know yours is purple, correct? I know, because I know my twin and mine has always been red, like basically the color of the lettering on Victoria's book that's right behind her there Narc, narc, who's?
Speaker 1:there, I just see a memoir but yeah, that like blood red there, that's my color.
Speaker 2:What is your favorite gift to receive?
Speaker 1:Ooh, you know I'm one of those people. I don't know about you, victoria, because I'm one of those people. I love giving gifts, but not like I don't like to. Necessarily. It's not like oh, it's Christmas, let me go buy for everybody. Like, if I'm out and when I say gift, it could be, it could be like whatever right, like I'm thinking of you and here, like I bought it for you and that's a gift. But I'm weird about receiving gifts. But I will say, like I like, I love. Like if somebody just was out and got a bag of peanut M&Ms and brought them to me, that would just tickle me to death. I'm not supposed to eat the chocolate because it has soy in it and I'm not supposed to have soy, and you know the sugar probably isn't good for a borderline diabetic. But I like, I. Okay, I love me some peanut M&Ms. Okay, I'll take a Starbucks too, though.
Speaker 2:Who wouldn't love Starbucksbucks? I mean, come on now, oh goodness gracious, I don't know what mine would be. Um, I'm one of these people that I've always, because when you lose your hearing, you enhance one of your other senses. So mine's and I smell, unfortunately, and um, like when my husband and child get into a farting war. It's really not good. Yeah, that's one that makes me just like go outside of the house. I'm one who always grew up wanting to smell good, like I love, and I've been asked all the time what do you wear? What do you wear? Because it's not normal, it's not like one of the normal everyday wear perfumes and I've told my husband from day one I like a good smelling man.
Speaker 2:There's just something about it yeah, oh yeah like, even when he's being his little redneck self. If he smells good, it's you know, it's all right.
Speaker 1:But um with you.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I've never been someone like if you want to give me a gift, I would say, give it to someone else, because I just I like giving things away and seeing the half of someone's face. I mean, I just had surgery yesterday and, like my family knows, when I'm in surgery they're going to open up the book bag or whatever and there's gifts in there for them and a love note. I love you both with all my heart and soul. And, um, you know I've always told faith okay, where are we going tonight?
Speaker 2:and and it would be like oh we're going to Paris and we're going to you know wherever, and I'll say, okay, I'll meet you, I'll meet you there. And when I'm back there, awake, watching, I'll pretend that I'm in Paris, you know, with her and I'll say did you see the Eiffel Tower? What did you think of it?
Speaker 1:Were you stuck, you know, and one of them is gifts, where people do like they risk receiving gifts is something that's affectionate but it's. It's interesting that your childhood, you know, and how you grew up and what your experience was usually you know, kind, how you grew up and what your experience was usually you know, kind of dictates what your love language will be in the future. They say that what you didn't get as a child, that's your love language as an adult and mine, ironically, is affection. I'm a touchy, feely, like if I love you, I will just come up to you and hug you, I will give you a kiss on the cheek. I might even get like a little crazy sometimes and look you upside the face, whatever, but but I love with affection and I like to risk.
Speaker 1:Like when I first got with my husband. He's one of those like you know, the baby boomer generation is like oh no, no, pda, and I'm like you can hold my hand, dude, like we're not doing anything, like. But he's's one of these like if his kids like entered into the picture, he'd like throw his hands up like he would, and I'm like you weren't even touching me, like it's so important, it's so funny, but now he knows, like when we're driving he'll hold my hand, or when we're sitting somewhere he'll reach across and rub my arm or put his.
Speaker 1:He knows and I get lots of hugs now because they do say that actually you should have at least seven hugs a day just saying right but but I'm with you, I like to. Just it's not about things and I think you know but but we all like it to have things too. It's not like if somebody were to what's your perfume that you wear? You said it's rare, what is it?
Speaker 2:it's actually hilarious the name of it. You're gonna crack up and say only no, it's da Vinci, da Vinci, and it's called angels and demons oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:That's, that's good, it's very. I'll have to go smell. We're all like everybody listening now is gonna go smell it, so we should get three bottles for promoting, I mean it's expensive it's expensive.
Speaker 2:It's expensive, but you know, even when I made amazing money, I always saved my money. I was so frugal all the time. But I smelled this and I was like most of them give me headaches. Yes, I agree.
Speaker 1:People can smell too much, but we all have. I love that. People are all drawn to a scent though. Yeah, because mine. I have two, though Growing. People are all drawn to a scent though yeah, because mine, I have two, though Growing up it was always from the body shop, of all things you want to talk about cheap. But the white musk, that was like my signature that is. That still is. Whenever I wear it, I feel like me. But I've gotten into All Saints Sunset Riot. Oh, I love that one, but that's pricey, yeah, so yeah, I mean it riot.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that one, but that's pricey, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, it's just, I'm, when I go to sleep at night, I always want to smell good, and I don't do it for michael, I do it for me, because I just, I think you just feel better, like you feel more relaxed, and you know, it's just, it helps you get rid of the toxicity, because my brain, like yours, never shuts off. So it's just like I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking you constantly, and so I'm just one of these people that always wants to smell good, no matter what but, I, don't do overpowering Like.
Speaker 2:one of the worst things is when I was at my biological parents' house. Now it's 10,000 square feet and I'm on the complete opposite side and upstairs I would text my sperm donor and say she just got out of the bath. Hand to God, I'm not kidding. And he would say how the hell do you know that? And I say because I smell her.
Speaker 1:No, I'm laughing because my mother and stepfather live in some kind of six or $7,000 square foot monstrosity. And yes, I have been there to where, like I am coughing, here's me the girl with the lung disease that I don't even know what level somebody is on, but I'm like hacking because of the strong scent. But yeah, I'm not into smelling like a French whore, but you know, to each his own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he wore this perfume that you could find on a five o'clock street corner on a you know like.
Speaker 1:It was brutally disgusting and $4.99 on clearance and she'd buy like a hundred bottles of it and it was just like there's an expiration date on it, and that's got to be a trigger if you ever smell that out somewhere. Oh my goodness, I don't think anybody wears that anymore. They don't. They can't get it because she bought it all.
Speaker 2:Right, it's so foul and I'm like it's gross, I couldn't have her in my car because it's hard and I'd roll down the windows and I was just like this is just disgusting. It smelled so, so bad.
Speaker 1:And you know, I just thought about.
Speaker 2:which is kind of warped and disgusting is that when I would date somebody I'd be like, oh they smell so good, or whatever my sperm donor would say, what are they wearing? And I made the mistake of telling him and then he would go buy that smell.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's weird, Right, right. So he never knew what my husband now smells, because he just no, no, that's just not okay. I will never forget smelling at the Marshall Fields when I was a teenager and my best friend in high school was a male and I bought it for him for Christmas once, because I'm like this is like the best smelling men's cologne, like ever, ever, ever, and like it's still to me is like it has the same effect of like Dracar, like any girl that grew up in the 80s or 90s. It's like you smell a guy that's Dracar and you're like like, yeah, it just made you melt, but yeah. So my husband like, when I got with him I don't know, he was wearing like the ax spray and I'm like hacking and I'm like, yeah, I'm like honey, you're almost 60. But I went and bought him that cologne that I remember.
Speaker 2:They still make it from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, izzy Miyake, izzy Miyake, izzy Miyake it. And I have had people, I have had women come up to me and say your husband smells so good. I said yes, my husband smells very. I have to make it clear because I know.
Speaker 1:But oh my god, but yeah, it is a great smelling cologne we all it, it's, it's amazing, but mean going back to like where you know. With regard to us, I love that we can talk about this stuff because, like favorite colors, favorite perfume, these might seem irrelevant to narcissism, but I think when you're recovering and trying to find yourself again, I always tell people and I've gotten critics that say, oh, that's not real self care. But I think that even when you're just coming out of it, we can't all afford therapy, we can't all just like go to Arizona on a retreat and discover our spiritual whatever, but you can't. You do know what your favorite color is and you can paint your nails that color and it makes your heart happy when you look down and see your nails all done in your favorite color and when you smell good, like I agree with you.
Speaker 1:When I go to bed at night, I'm showered, I'm comfy, I got my coconut foot cream on and my magnesium, organic magnesium lotion on my shoulders that I've, you know, rubbed in there and I have my whatever lotion and you feel good. And that's what this is about, that's what self-care is. And if that means having a bowl of ice cream every night for dessert or putting your favorite perfume on, buying your favorite perfume, even even if it's a little pricey giving yourself those little treats. I think that's really important because I think it reminds us that we deserve it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we forget that because so many of us sacrifice and sacrifice and give so much of ourselves to give to others that we need to indulge ourselves once in a while too. Right, absolutely, and it.
Speaker 2:you know, I tell my husband all the time I don't do this for you Cause I take a shower every day and then I take a bath at night because the bath for me, because of all my injuries and stuff, is it just relaxing? Um, I have, I have flameless candles, um, on the walls.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do too, and I I put, like you know, because I'm so frugal and cheap, I use like cheap shampoo and use that as a body, like making bubble baths yeah and I just sit in there and it like, lay back on my spa pillow and and it's even if it's just 10 or 15 minutes to decompress, and then I get up and put my lotion on and you know, and then I put on my pajamas and and my slippers, but you know, it's, it's the decompression, then I go back to work, but it's that time that is just for me, even though it's not because I always get the mom, mom, baby mom.
Speaker 2:I'm been knocking on the the door. I'm like I just want 10 minutes, just 10, 10, instead of setting alexa 10 minutes so much for decompressing so, but you got to do something good for yourself. Yeah, you have to every once in a while, and I you know absolutely.
Speaker 1:I need to do it every day all right.
Speaker 2:What legacy do you wish to create for yourself that contradicts the one that was established in your upbringing?
Speaker 1:by your parents.
Speaker 1:I have actually been asked this before and this is part of where my book three that's coming out ends is that love I never got love from while I was still in the womb. I was not wanted, I was not loved. I wasn't loved. When I showed up I should say I was. I. I'm going to retract that.
Speaker 1:I was not loved by my mother, who is the person who should have, first and foremost, even and here I am using that word should that, I just said, should be removed from the language. But societally, a mother is supposed to love her children and I know people who have been like I don't know if I want kids and then they have one and like they, they get it. Like after you give birth. Oh, my god, I don't know my life without this child, but that didn't happen for my mother. You know, and I've struggled.
Speaker 1:I part of my healing was grappling with the fact that you know, regardless, I've struggled. I part of my healing was grappling with the fact that you know, regardless of how much it didn't work out for me and what I didn't get as a result of that, I have to respect the fact that you know there's nothing more authentic than sticking to your guns. She didn't want to be a mother. She didn't want to be a mother when she got pregnant. She didn't want to be a mother to me after I came out.
Speaker 1:But she sure didn't try to give me love. She made sure. She was always very funny about making sure I knew that she didn't have to give me shelter and food and clothing, but that I should be satisfied that I got shelter, food and clothing, because that's all she owed me. So for me it's love, and it's really interesting to me that I mean as far back as I can remember, and I can remember back to being three, four years old. I've always been obsessed with hearts. I mean always, and if I see the word love especially if the O is a heart.
Speaker 1:I mean I don't know what it is Like seriously, literally, Like I just like it's something weird, that it's just. It's like this magnetic pull that I have to, anything like that. So for me, the legacy has always been love. I am going to love and I am going to give love and I'm going to make sure my son is the most loved child ever in this entire world and I'm going to love everybody. I don't love everybody. I'm going to admit that there are people who have really tried me. I have tried really, really hard to find some way to love them back, but it's love. It's love. What about you?
Speaker 2:I always wanted the marriage. I saw for my grandparents that was like the biggest thing ever, and in every room of apartments I ever had were pictures everywhere. I lived and breathed to be with them and stay with them and watch their marriage. I never saw them fight, not once.
Speaker 2:He would always open the door order for her say look at my beautiful bride. I love that. They kept each other's greeting cards for over 50 years and they give them to me and they kept the first time I wrote I love you on it and give it to me and kept every card I ever give them. And so, like he, I remember sitting one day both they had, you know, recliners. My grandmother had cancer. I was eight and my grandmother had cancer and she didn't want me to know she had lost her hair. She thought I would be afraid to be near her and she spent so much time crocheting scarves for homeless people and my grandfather would take the quarters and like, come out behind my ear and pranks and we played together everything right.
Speaker 2:So I'm sitting there with my grandmother and she leaned over to her yarn bag and her wig fell off and immediately she freaked out wondering how was I going to handle it. Right, because I didn't know. And I looked over at my grandfather and I went why can't you do a cool trick like that? And I immediately scooted back on the on the chair and a good solid five minutes I was going up and down trying to get my hair to come off, like literally oh my gosh why, why, why can't I be bald?
Speaker 2:why can't I be bald? Yeah, and so she was dumbfounded the fact that I wasn't, you know, scared or whatever and I took a pair of scissors and said here, cut my hair like I wanted to be her. And you know the fact that their love was so true and unconditional and so vibrant. I actually have their profile pictures tattooed on my back because they always had my back and I did that after I passed and um, it was just.
Speaker 2:You know, I would see such a night and day difference, like we would go and have dinner and there's no phones, just like I implement in my family. There's no phones at the table, there's no television, and my grandfather would say, if I wanted whoever's on the other end of that phone at my table, they'd be joining us. And that's when the phone was corded and hooked on a wall and so we would sit down, talk about our day and you know what everybody's doing and and help each other clean up and like that's what we do here and it was just the implementation of. You know they would go eat and every time we'd go somewhere to eat, he would order for her. He knew what she wanted. Um, you know, he would ask for extra coffee for her senka back in the day and have some more senka, and it was, it was. It was so beautiful, like he would love that everything and no matter what.
Speaker 2:You know, when one of them was in the hospital, I stayed with them and then I went home and stayed with whoever was going back to their home and he I was young and you're supposed to be 12 in the ICU and he would tell everybody oh, she's a midget, she's very self-conscious, Don't? And he would sit there all day and talk about how beautiful she is and she soaked up all these machines and everything else and he's like she's resting. That's my beautiful bride. And I was like I want that one day. That's what I want.
Speaker 1:I think everybody wants that. I actually a couple that is husband, it's friends of my husband. They've been married what 35, 40 years and, yeah, he still refers to her as his bride and I love that too and I think it's interesting. I mean to cherish somebody to that extent. That is a love without words, like you don't even need to say I love you, because somebody in that situation feels so loved.
Speaker 1:And it's funny because I had this conversation with my husband a while back but where I even had said to him I remember we were out somewhere and he's like oh, the waiter, I had to get up to go to the restroom before we ordered. And he said, oh, I told the waiter to come back, you know, because I didn't know what you wanted to drink. And I'm like, I'm your wife, you know, like you could you know what I like, you know what my moods are. If I, you should know if I want the glass of peach Masato or if I want a red wine sangria or a Coke Zero today. But you can order like you're supposed to. And he's like well, I don't want to overstep and I don't want to be like a male chauvinist and I'm like I think it's amazing when a partner knows you know like I'll order for him and I always tell them can you bring an extra glass of water, because he always drinks tons of water when he eats Like.
Speaker 1:But to know your partner to that extent and take the initiative, I love that and I love that it kind of carried into you and how you operate your family, because that's what a family should be and I think so many of us didn't have that and you were so lucky to have your grandma and grandpa. But there were some people out there, the scapegoats and the black sheep that unfortunately were stuck with their narcissistic parent or parents and you know they probably are desperate to have that. It was always important to me too to a family dinner, family dinner every night at the table, because I didn't have that. But it's kind of interesting. It goes back to the love languages. You know, what we don't have in our childhood becomes important to us as adults. But thank you for sharing all that. I think, like your grandparents are now everybody's idols.
Speaker 2:I had an overfaith NICU bed when she was born but, um, and she knows them as guardian angels. But what you know, one of the things is when we I would have dinner at my sperm and egg donors Um, she never cooked. They eat out three times a day, seven days a week. It's disgusting, that's mine too, yeah.
Speaker 2:So let's say that the egg donor was going to go to Chili's or Friday's or whatever and pick up and the golden child said, no, I want McDonald's. Then she would go get him McDonald's and there would be a time where I'm like, oh, can I get McDonald's?
Speaker 1:And she's like no you're eating what everybody else is getting.
Speaker 2:Well, if you're going to McDonald's anyway, why can't I get a?
Speaker 1:fish sandwich.
Speaker 2:You know, kind of some fries or something. No, you're going to eat this and then to eat this, and then the food would come to the table. Tv's on, people are on the phone, you know, nobody's talking to each other, and if I didn't want it and I didn't want to eat it, it was well, guess what? You're gonna sit here until breakfast or you'll have it for breakfast, but you're gonna eat and my golden child brother be over smacking down on his french fries and his fish sandwich, and you know it's like, and if he didn't finish it, that's okay, cause he's full, but it was just night and day different. It was just so different, you know, and and that's not how it's supposed to be, Like.
Speaker 2:I wanted to say goodnight to my grandparents. My grandfather had triple bypass surgery and he would come in and tell me goodnight, I love you. And I would always go in there to him. But for my dad, if you will, if I wanted to tell him goodnight, he's like you have to come to me. He would do that to Faith. Faith's hooked up on a feeding machine and she'd be hooked up and she'd say I want to say goodnight, grandpa. And he would say, well, you're going to have to unhook her, You're going to have to turn up and go tell her goodnight. And that would blow my mind just simple things like that.
Speaker 1:Just blow my mind how some people are so self-centered that that's all. That's the thing. That was my stepfather. It was I for him, though. He was always at the kitchen table, but he always had his arm crossed and sitting up like he was the king of everything, just waiting for you to summon whatever it is he wishes for, and to this day, even though they moved from my childhood home, if you can even call it a home, it's always yeah, well, and it's sad, and my grandma lives with them now because she's up there in years and can't, you know, live independently.
Speaker 1:And she has said more than a few times this is where I live, but it's not my home and it makes me sick and but I can't get her here to live with me. We'd take her in a second but but, thank you, that's so beautiful and I hope that everybody does kind of think about what they want, cause I think that's a good question for everybody to ask. You know, I always say it's good to ask what you want, but what legacy do you want to leave? What do you want your family to look like? Because I think we need to have those visions, especially when we're in these situations where we feel hopeless and powerless.
Speaker 1:Have that vision, because I think once you see something and you can and specify, like how many kids do you have sitting at the table? If you have no kids, are you married? Are you with a partner? Are you maybe you are a single woman with a career and want to adopt a kid, what does it look like to you? What does that life look like? And then go get it.
Speaker 1:But I think a lot of us. If we see it, we can't unsee it and so we even unconsciously start kind of enacting little you know steps towards those goals. But I think that's these are good questions to kind of think about, and even for me. I don't know about you, but like it's even making me think, like yeah, we need to get back to sitting at a. I can't I eat alone half the time here anymore because we're all in and out but we don't have anyone. I mean the youngest one's 21 and he lives. I mean everybody lives away. Now we're empty nesters at our age but it's an empty nest because even my husband I don't know where he is half the time. He's so social. But I would love to have a family dinner with everybody at the table and like you said no phones.
Speaker 1:I'm going to just come to your house and I'll make you banana pudding with you guys, I'll even do the dishes after. Oh, you don't even you don't have to tempt me with banana pudding, that's OK. I like bread pudding too, that's actually my favorite and rum cake, but you know, whatever.
Speaker 2:I'll just take that. I love this next question. I think it's hysterical. We love listening to you guys. You two truly do act like sisters in the best way Not a black sheep and not a golden child sisters, but real life, loving sisters to one another. The camaraderie and the chemistry between the both of you is fantastic and for that I thank you. Now here's a question just for sheer fun. If y'all were the golden girls I love the golden girls, I grew up on the golden girls which one would each of you be?
Speaker 1:Oh, that's hysterical. I always thought I'd be more like Blanche, because that way I mean I still. I know at my age like I get a lot of you, I still dress. Like when your daughter puts her little fashion designs out, I'm like, oh, that's totally me, like the torn jeans and the crop tops and you know, and I can, and maybe it's not my age, but it makes me feel good and I'm a hot mama.
Speaker 1:I try to be a hot mama, but that's like I feel like I'm more like Blanche, because if I didn't have my husband 70, 80, 90, I gonna be still running around having my fun. I'm sorry, I'm a, I'm a human and I'm a girl and well, that's what I want to do. I was locked up with that guy for 25 years that first one. So I'm living my life and if this one croaks, I love him dearly and I'll hold him in my heart forever, but you know.
Speaker 2:I don't even know. I'm afraid to ask who do you think I would be? I have my idea of who I would be, but let's see who you say it's funny because you like mutter stuff under your breath like be arthur's character.
Speaker 1:What? Was her name on the show dorothy. But gosh, you're funny. Like you're like a combination of, like all the other three, I feel like what do you? But you have to decide who you want to be.
Speaker 2:I would have to be Sophia.
Speaker 1:You would be Sophia. Yeah, I love Betty white. Oh, I'm sorry, sophia was the old lady.
Speaker 2:I'm the mom Getty.
Speaker 1:What was her?
Speaker 2:name.
Speaker 1:Rose was Betty white, but the island. Sophia was. What was her name? Rose was betty white, but the island sofia was. What was her name? Estelle getty estelle getty.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's what I was.
Speaker 1:She was actually the youngest on the set in real life I know, yeah, and I saw an interview with all of them ages ago and they somebody in the audience said are you? As to estelle getty, are you as funny as you are? You know, as your character is?
Speaker 2:and she and Betty White's like no, she's dead serious, she's no fun at all do you know that Betty was supposed Betty White was supposed to be Blanche, right, I couldn't see it.
Speaker 1:I just couldn't see that you know no, I think they hit the jackpot with that show, but I don't know, we'd have our own thing going on. But that would make sense if you were a stalgetti, because I mean, you have faith and uh, you know she's gonna have to play a role too. She could be the daughter. She would be the snarky one with all her comments yes, yeah, she would be, that's no question about that so we just need an airhead, we need a rose, if anyone wants to casting call we're not we're not doing this for another 30 or 40 years, but maybe it's funny I saw.
Speaker 2:I've had people ask this all the time If you were to have your book into a movie, tell me who your stars would be playing you and that jackass and oh, I yeah.
Speaker 1:Who would you pick?
Speaker 2:I don't know, I've had, I've been asked that by even movie producers. I've been asked, you know, yeah, but then they were in that writing hold or whatever, and I want to reach back out to them. But, um, the only person I could ever imagine playing idiot is keith or sutherland, because if you ever saw eye for an eye, he was so believable in that movie okay and I couldn't watch him and anything else after that because he was so authentic and scary interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the thing is is like, and michael's like, who would I be? And I said I'm sorry, I know you're gonna be really mad when I say this, but you're gonna have to be raymond reddington because I love me some red from the blacklist. You know he he is. He only hurts bad people and he's got such disposition and you know demeanor about him he's, so I would.
Speaker 1:Yeah but I don't know. Yeah, that's funny because I just put a post on that the other day. I was a guest on a podcast Is it a few days ago or last week and they said they were like we need your books to be movies, like after the third one comes out. And I'm like you are not the first people to say that there have been conversations, but I'm like I already have it planned out. Like Natalie Portman is my girl, she has got to play me because she can be very serious, but she can. When she smiles, like really smiles I you know she has that twinkle in her eye like I get, but I've already got.
Speaker 1:Ryan Reynolds is so my ex, much better looking, but he can play a dark side like nobody's business and you don't see it coming. But that, that duality that Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, the nice guy and he's funny and charming and you know, thinks he's good looking and well, brian Reynolds is my ex, is not so much, but no, he's my ex and and my husband Doug, it's like well, who would play me? And I was thinking about it. I'm like you know what? Hugh Jackman, not a doppelganger, but I'm like you are older than me, a little older, but it's that, that that rustic handsome kind of scruffy, yeah, tall yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I play my egg and sperm donor. You know like yeah, I haven't thought that far I don't want to give them that much thought I know I don't know who I would get to play me, because all the you know like I don't want j-lo for sure oh gosh, I couldn't have.
Speaker 1:No, I'm so over her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's yeah, like Susan Sarandon or I can't see her playing that part Because she's kind of, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I love well, I guess, send us, ask everybody else, send us who you think I mean for both of us. That'd be interesting to see. You'd have to look at our pictures, obviously, or just even our personalities, but yeah, yeah, that'll be an interesting one yeah, natalie Portman would be awesome for you.
Speaker 1:I could totally, oh my god, I've actually been mistaken for her in Las Vegas. It's really weird like a few times and I'm like no, like I'm at like the same shovel crap in your mouth buffet as you like Natalie Portman would not be, literally like I have had people come up to me like all like squirrely, like you'd get around a celebrity. I'm like, no, I am not Natalie Portman, but what a compliment. I mean, my God, she's absolutely gorgeous, but you and we're getting that self-esteem. We're working on it.
Speaker 2:Ridiculous you want to do a couple more.
Speaker 1:Let's go for it, yeah.
Speaker 2:How can the golden child break free from expectations imposed upon them by a narcissist?
Speaker 1:Well, here's the thing the golden child has to want to break free from the expectations imposed on them by the narcissist. And I'm not saying that all of them don't want to break free, but most of them are pretty cushy. I mean honestly, and I'll just admit it for myself If I had been the golden child. I'm not saying it's right to have a golden child, but when your parents favor you and encourage you and support you and everything you could ever want is basically handed to you like right, but I could see where it could be. You know I've even brought this up about your brother, that you know.
Speaker 1:I think his obsession with Batman might possibly be like the one thing he holds on to with like fierce ridiculousness, just because that's the one thing that is just his. You know what I? It kind of like his escape or something, because every part of his life is so regimented by your mother and he's not accepted by your sperm donor at all. But you know, I think it's interesting. But I think with anything, whether you're the scapegoat, whether you're the golden child, whether you're anything in any relationship, even healing alone from any kind of abuse or trauma, you have to want something. You have to be aware of it and want to change it in order to break free of any restraints.
Speaker 1:And without that and I guess my answer is just that I find it hard to believe that too many golden children would want to break free. But it's just making a decision and setting everything with this comes down to boundaries. You want to break free from something when I wanted to leave my ex, when my mother and I went separate ways. It's about setting a boundary and I tell people like this it's saying no to them for the first time and yes to yourself for the first time. That is when you break free. Then you got a lot of healing to do to undo all the crap in your head that makes you feel bad and remorseful and guilty and oh, that's your blood and all that bull. But you know you get over it over time.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. How does a narcissistic parent's need for control affect their children's autonomy and decision makingmaking capability?
Speaker 1:It takes it away. I mean, like I just said, I mean whether it doesn't even matter if you're the golden child or the scapegoat. You're not allowed. It's the way I have always explained it to people, and almost we were even looking at it as my book title. You know, it's like you're a puppet, you're in a play and you're assigned a role and this is, and they will tell you this is what you're going to wear, this is what you're going to say, this is how you're going to act, this is what you're going to eat, this is what you're going to do, this is your role. And everybody's got to play their role. And they're up there pulling the strings, being the puppeteers, because they want everything to be how they want it. And the second you say I don't want to play this role anymore. Well then, you better watch out, because whether you're like me, whether you're five or you're 50, let me tell you they're going to come after your ass and it's not going to be good.
Speaker 2:That makes me think of that sweet girl who is the dancer who got the bad review.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes me think of that sweet girl who is the dancer who got the bad review.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that makes me think of that. That's horrible, yeah, but we've had a few, didn't we have somebody else that, oh, the one that decided she, or she said she didn't want to be a doctor, like her parents, but she wasn't sure what to do. It's the same thing, it's just you have to decide what you want.
Speaker 2:But give them the heel. Give them the heel.
Speaker 1:That's the I know sitting on the heel. I'm so I'm. My grandma bought me a pair of heels the other day. She, you know, she took me Christmas shopping. I was allowed to see her for the second time this year and, yes, it's December, but she kept wanting to buy me stuff at at at the store for Christmas. And I'm like you don't have to buy me anything, here we go with the gifts. I'm like I'm good. I said donate it to Salvation Army, do whatever, buy yourself something. No, but she wouldn't take no for an answer. So there was this pair of like red heels with a bow on the back and the ankle strap and they were sexy as hell. And I'm like fine, you want to buy me something, buy me those. And I took the box and she's like really, where are you going to wear them? I'm like vacuuming, I'm going to wear them vacuuming.
Speaker 1:But I literally, when I brought them home and I tried them on because I'm not one of these people that likes to like take stuff off, especially in the winter in the Midwest I'm not one of these people that likes to like take stuff off, especially in the winter in the Midwest. I'm not like taking boots and hats and all this crap off in the store, but I tried them on and I literally look at those three. It's probably a three and a half inch heel. I could barely walk in them. They're sexy as hell, though, but I literally thought of that comment from like just sit on that heel and spin. And I'm looking at them like these, these and spin, and I'm looking at them like these. These are the kind of shoes that I would be wearing when I say that to somebody. So now I have an idea of where I'm going to wear these shoes.
Speaker 1:I mean, they're just going to be worn and I know exactly who I'm going to say that line to and she deserves it, and it won't be nice, but it'll be my glorifying moments that I'll have, that I can say. I said that to her, so I'm very excited. So thank you again to whoever it was that gave us that line.
Speaker 2:Transgender whose family didn't accept. I love it. I do, you know. I had the opportunity tonight to see both my sperm egg donor and the golden child. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And we talked about this off air.
Speaker 2:But I'm not gonna go. I decided to be the bigger person and oh, that's right, I remember.
Speaker 1:Now I'm sorry, I was clueless for a second, but yeah, it's better off it's two hours, two and a half hours away.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm like I'll get glass in my food. Something's gonna happen, you know, and and they won't allow Faith to go. But she's going. She's 18. So she would go if we went. And you know I've done so much to heal from all this and you know when they I don't care who you are. If you can't even call and check on a child who is on life support and a multi-organ failure, and you know that that's your grandchild you can't even. You know smoke signal text email. Call nothing. Signal text email. Call nothing. Forget I was amputated and part of it was that their fault. But, yeah, you can't even contact on your granddaughter. And then you do see her.
Speaker 2:We ran into them, as a lot of people know, and then they wouldn't even look at her or talk to her or whatever. That's unforgivable to me, like that's just not something I can easily forgive or will forgive. You can come at me, you're not coming to her period. She had nothing to do with it. You know they always say how horrible she talked to them. Well, you know, when you have a trached child and they say I liked it better when you couldn't speak, um, because she was trached, or wait till your lawyer gets here, or you know, he would say I'm going to give you a knuckle sandwich. And that was just like, excuse me, um, I don't think so, you're not going to. He's like you must have lost your sense of humor and I'd say, yeah, it was beaten out of me, it was left on the floor when I was bleeding half to death. But thanks for thinking about it. You know you don't tell a child hey, I'm going to give you a knuckle sandwich and think it's funny, cause it's not funny.
Speaker 1:My stepfather used to say that to me all the time too. Yeah, and it's not. It's not funny. I mean, I don't get sensitive. I can joke about you know stuff, but it's not funny, and I would never dare say that to a child who's been through what you and Faith have been through. But you know what. I'm proud of you, though, because so many of us and we have had people write in that you know, like the person that said they can you know their parent or whoever it was, can sit on their heel and spin, and we love that and we laugh and we clap and cheer you on, and sometimes we do. They can call it reactive abuse, whatever.
Speaker 1:Sometimes it just flies out because we've stuffed our anger and our feelings down and it just comes out. But when you can make a decision, a conscious decision, that's best for you and put the vengeance aside, and that that's I always say. I always have an angel on one side that always knows the right thing to do, and then I have that devil that's just like oh no, go and tell them this and do that, but you got to protect your peace, you got to. You know it's not worth it sometimes to poke the bear. You know, poke the sleeping bear, stir up the demons Like.
Speaker 1:There are situations like where I'm going to go and decidedly wear these fancy ass red heels. I can't walk in. But it's because it's my husband's family and unfortunately, this woman is in it and I refuse, even though this is going to be something that I am hosting. I refuse to be participants in exclusion and division of a family. So she will be invited. Whether she comes or not is up to her. But don't think I won't mutter that under my breath while I'm looking hot as hell in some skimpy little dress and wearing those hot heck heels.
Speaker 2:And I will send pictures. I think this should be probably one of our last questions. Please provide an exact story or time where you really realized not even depending if it was in your childhood or your adulthood when you both really realized how out to lunch your narcissistic parents truly could be.
Speaker 1:Well, that's interesting because I actually had something a few days ago. I tried different healing modalities, so this isn't necessarily an exact story, but I guess it's just an example. So the other day I did something called it's called family constellation therapy, but I've never found anything online that really describes, and I didn't either, but somebody that I met and really connected with and had a very similar past offered to do a session and, like I said, I still can't find anything online that describes it as far as what I experienced. Okay, so that aside, in this, what it basically does, is it you go through your ancestral lineage and it basically very quickly finds really the core of the generational trauma and how it was passed down to who.
Speaker 1:Anyway, with regard to my mother because she's always who I you know, she's, I say, the crux of my existence. It's interesting because I always, once I learned what gaslighting was, I'm like, oh my gosh, like she's been gaslighting me since I was a child. Something would happen two feet away from her I'd get my ass beat by her husband or end up wrestling on the floor with him or scream, and she would just wash her dishes like nothing was going on and like even like, look around like it nothing. And I mean I'd be screaming at her, aren't you seeing that? Help me, like, help me, tell him he can't do this. Or even in my 40s, even you know, one of the last times I was in their house, the vile things that this man said to me, and he was screaming in my face and like spit was flying out and he walked away. And she comes out and she said I, she always reminds me of like a Stepford wife, like just the smile, the plastered smile on her face, and I looked at her. I'm like, did you not just hear what he said? She goes, I didn't hear anything. I'm like the whole effing town heard him? The hell you didn't. Hear him? The hell you didn't. She just pissed me off, anyway. So where this is going, I always just assume like she just wants to be, she wants to act like she's completely oblivious. But what I realized in doing this, like family consolation therapy, and it was just, I don't know if it was the therapy itself, but you know, it's interesting that here I am almost 49 years old what I thought was gaslighting.
Speaker 1:She has dissociated. She had trauma. Her father was extremely abusive Also a cop, by the way that I also found out and held a gun to her and her brother's head when they were little. He was cheated on. My grandma in their house over and over, left me in a bar in Chicago when I was three years old to leave with a woman so he could screw her. Just a horrific, vile man.
Speaker 1:But my mother, I think, was so ill-equipped to be a mother to me and to handle what we were going through with the man she decided to marry that she literally is so dissociated it's a different level it's not even gaslighting anymore. It's like it's a different level, like it's not even gaslighting anymore. She, it's kind of like I. The way I kind of think about it is when victims of sexual abuse dissociate so they don't have to perceive the violation to their body in their mind. I feel like like I've come to this realization that that's where my mother is at, and I'm not saying that everybody's mother is like that.
Speaker 1:My mother went through severe traumas and whatever, but I've realized for me that that's where a lot of her narcissism comes and where a lot of the failure to me as my mother comes in as well.
Speaker 1:It's completely shut herself down and it's interesting because I've even had family members that have said she's not even anything, what she used to be. She literally is a shell of a human being that just smiles when she thinks she's supposed to and just kind of, like I said, a Stepford wife puts the dinner on the table, that serves her husband and makes sure he's happy, and as long as he's happy, then she has everything she needs and everything else. Just she tunes it all out and she can't handle it, and I think that's really sad. But it speaks to the situation every one of us are in is that when we have a narcissistic parent, likely they went through something in childhood that they cannot handle, they are not willing to face, they have unhealed trauma and this is how it passes down to the next generation. So that's my little story. Let's hear yours. Oh boy, that's my little story. Let's hear yours.
Speaker 2:Oh boy. So the one thing that my sperm donor cared about more than anything was money. It's all about money and perception. So he collected old cars. I learned about them very little, like what's a big block engine, what's you know? Like I would learn, it's a four, 54 and Barrett Jackson and you know all about.
Speaker 2:So he had somebody who worked on the cars, because he would. He had somebody come over and work on the cars and this person I use that term very lightly is a triggering narcissist. Like the guy is so narcissistic and he's a piece of shit to know otherwise. So this guy comes over and he refuses to wear shoes. He says he has, um, like pains in his feet and so the pain in his feet make it harder for him to wear shoes and I'm the one that's like. But walking on concrete and pebbles and dirt barefoot, he wears just socks everywhere he goes, oh right, so, but he's supposedly like top of the game mentally when it comes to okay, right, okay, debate that all day. So, um, he would come over and go work in the garage and do things to the cars and all he ever did was complain and complain and complain. And one day he complained in front of faith that he hated his life and just wish he'd commit suicide. And I said to him do not ever say that again. He goes, I just wish I would die. And at this point faith was having lots of surgeries all the time and I was like, stop saying that. You know, you're obviously crying for help and I you're. You're one of those ones that wants the attention, but you're not going to do it right.
Speaker 2:So here's the thing, and so we were I don't remember where we were somewhere one day and my sperm donor got this phone call and it's from a restaurant manager, you can't make this stuff up. And my sperm donor put it on speaker and he was. It was this guy and he goes can you talk to the manager? And this guy was crying can you talk to manager? They want to throw me out because I don't have shoes on. It's a buffet.
Speaker 2:And so the guy gets him on the phone and my sperm donor is like man, he's, I'm so sorry, but he has this, this medical condition where he can't wear shoes. And then the guy's like I'm sorry, but you can come into our restaurant barefoot you know there's protocols and things, yeah, food administration barefoot. You know there's protocols and things, yeah, food administration. So he was crying non-stop. So I literally had to just shake my head and I left it alone and um, then he ends up getting covid and I said this is in the heart of covid. Anyone who knows faith knows she has a compromised immune system. So I said he cannot come in the house. He can't because what happens if I bless you?
Speaker 2:thank you listen and I, and so I said no. And he's like you're not going to tell me. No, he makes me money. He's like do you think I even like listening to him? All he does is complain. And I try to listen to him. And I mean, my sperm donor told me everything about this guy. I didn't want to know any of it. So he would come and knock on the door, ring the doorbell and bio parents aren't there. And he's like I'm here to work on the door, ring the doorbell and bio parents aren't there. And he's like I'm here to work on the car. Well, one, you go around the back and go into the other garages in the back and two, I'm not opening the door for you, because you have COVID and you have to wear a mask.
Speaker 2:And he was like F, you have this. He'd run and go call sperm donor and say she won't let me in, and then he'd call he makes me money. And so we had this huge falling out. So they would invite him to stay for dinner. They would invite him to, you know, just purposely, and Faith and I stayed upstairs.
Speaker 2:So one day Faith wanted something to eat and we thought he was on the other side, below in the bottom terrace level garages, if you will, and we were in there getting something to eat and he walks. So immediately I take her and start walking away and she had her hands full and he bumped into her. He bumped into her and he was like aren't you gonna say excuse me? And she says no, and so he proceeded to cuss her out. Grown ass man starts cussing her out. And I hear this and I'm like excuse me, what?
Speaker 2:And the one thing people know, I don't raise my voice, I don't yell, I don't scream. And that makes people mad because they feel like if you'll scream, then they can get louder and you can get louder and then they know they're getting to you. But if you maintain your same volume level, it pisses them off 10 times more because it's making them think they're not getting under your skin. So he was like your daughter needs to learn some manners. And I said, didn't you just run into her? And he was like I don't care? And he was like she's an effing piece of shit, like saying this about faith. And before I could say anything, faith was ripping him a new ass. Both my bio parents were now in the room, in the kitchen, and they're standing there and I said faith, go upstairs. I got this and she's like I ain't missing this for nothing. I'm not going anywhere, I'm standing right here.
Speaker 2:I want to hear what you're gonna say yeah so he told me he was like yeah, you're able to save any woman or any child in the world.
Speaker 2:You're the, you know, you know what you're doing medically, but you're a horrible mother because you won't teach your child to say excuse me when she runs into someone.
Speaker 2:And I said you ran into her and at that moment I was standing there and I'm watching my sperm and egg donor watch this guy who makes the money, who this guy thinks he's part of their family or whatever, and say nothing as he's cussing out a special needs little girl who might be about nine or 10 at the time, and he's dropping F-bombs in this and that and the other and they say nothing.
Speaker 2:So, knowing all the stuff I know about him, I still maintain that confidentiality to an extent. And I was like you can't even go eat without shoes and you are like you have no business, yelling at my child, like and I know they're not going to say anything. And I said let me tell you something. If you were in my home and this was my home and you opened your mouth, you would be thrown out in pieces onto the lawn like they would find different parts of you yeah everywhere because you're dropping f-bombs and all these other words that my daughter's never heard before and now she's going to want to know explanation as to what they're for.
Speaker 2:And you made her cry and her bio grandparents are standing right here and not doing anything about it. And he looks at me and he goes you better watch your mouth. I'll go cut your brakes. I said that is a threat and I will have you locked up. You just do not understand. And they're still standing there. They're still standing there not saying a word and he goes I'll come up in your room and I'll take care of you. I said I wish you the best of luck if you do. I really do, because if you come up there, so help me, god. You just just know you've been warned. He's like I can come up there, I'm gonna go through all your stuff and blah, blah, blah. And they're both still just standing there. They're not doing anything. They're letting this happen.
Speaker 2:And that was my first epiphany outside, because I'm so used to the inside, the closed door, what it's like as a family done, yeah, but to have someone from the outside and they just let him go at my daughter, I don't care if he came at me because I'll handle that, but you don't go at my daughter when she didn't do anything wrong and I said nobody raises their hand to her, nobody yells at her, nobody cusses at her and nobody spanks her. If I haven't, nobody else will. It's my child's, my decision. And I said for him to do what he did I don't care how much money he makes you. He would never come back here again Never, because you need to let your child know that she's worth standing up for and you're not doing it. But they just. I was dumbfounded because they literally thought he didn't do anything wrong and they were like, well, next time he's here, you just keep away from him. No, he should never be here again.
Speaker 2:You know how would you do. How can you do that? That's awful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's awful. And what's interesting to me about that is, you know, like I, I would always get that same treatment. You know, for my mother and stepfather. In fact, you know as desperate as I was to have um I witnesses to testify on my behalf when I was seeking an order of protection, even though my mother and stepfather had chosen to dissociate from me well before that point, I did reach out because they were witness to many things over the 25 years with my ex that would be helpful for the judge to have heard, and they declined.
Speaker 1:And I mean that's something that it's like your situation that I I could never fathom. Like you don't like me, you don't fine, but like, do you not understand? He wanted me dead, he's trying to kill me actively and oh, we don't want to get involved. I'm your daughter. I don't understand that. But here's where it's interesting to me is that your sperm donor and egg donor treat faith with the same care that they do for you and I say that with a snarky smirk Whereas my mother and stepfather and it's almost humorous to me they treat my son, their only grandchild, who isn't even biologically my stepfather's grandchild, but they treat him like. I mean, he's like the golden grandchild, but being the only one it's quite easy. But they are phenomenal. But it's interesting because they only started that since my divorce and dissociating it from me, suddenly they're grandma and grandpa of the year. But it really sucks for me because Easter, thanksgiving, christmas when I would assume that after everything that I've been through that I just assume my only child would maybe want to spend those holidays with me, I don't see him because he gets invited over there and you know it's like they do this stuff.
Speaker 1:Even the first Christmas after the divorce I got my son on Christmas Eve. My ex got him on Christmas day. He was 17. So technically still a minor. But on the Christmas Eve, on my day to celebrate with my son, I had to work. So we had the evening for ourselves and my mother invited my son there for dinner and my son felt caught and he's like well, I already accepted the invitation and they're giving me my presence and I mean it's it, it just sucks ass. I almost, I it sounds terrible to say I almost wish they'd treat him like yours, treat faith, because at least then it's even Stephen. But you know it's hard for me to know that. My son obviously sees that I'm the only one excluded. At the holidays, my brother's there, everyone's there, grandma's there, just I'm not invited. When grandma turned 80, I wasn't invited. So you know, it's interesting the different takes that these same narcissists can do. But yeah, they definitely want to make us suffer. They're not going to take up for us, even when our lives are on the line.
Speaker 2:How are they as grandparents before you got divorced?
Speaker 1:Oh, they were hands off. I mean they weren't mean or anything. But I actually remember getting into a pretty big argument with them because my son was in taekwondo through grade school. He did t-ball, he did, he was on. He made varsity golf as a freshman in high school and was in the top five. You know, in golf you want to be in the top five. To actually play at the meets from freshman to senior year was one of the top player players, always in the top five, and they never once. And he was in the newspaper for golf.
Speaker 1:I think it was his junior year of high school and I showed it to them and they just kind of like pushed it aside, like they couldn't even glance at it, and that pissed me off, it was triggering, and so I got a little loud and a little okay. I got a little loud and a little okay. I got a lot angry and was like this is your only grandchild, like I'm trying to show you something he accomplished, like I don't, I understand I will never accomplish anything that will be of notice to you, but like Jesus Christ, you've never been to any of his things ever, just like you're never at mine. But yeah, it was just interesting that right after the divorce though like within two weeks of me divorcing my ex oh, they were at the golf meet and they were in. They were, you know, grandparents of the year. Oh, you need to go shopping for winter clothes. We'll buy you a winter coat. Well, you know cause? I was apparently inept to take care of my son and I'm like, no, we don't need you, we're fine. But you know, you have to understand from a kid's point of view. A teenager, especially when you're rich, grandma and grandpa want to show the world what wonderful grandparents they are and buy you expensive things. You know my son's human and you know he, he enjoyed the attention and still does, but it sucks because, but, but. But.
Speaker 1:I will say this, if anyone else out there relates to it, you know what? Uh, my son's 21 now and I know that he. You know people show who they are without our help, without us saying anything. So I just keep my mouth shut. My relationship with him is with him, us saying anything, so I just keep my mouth shut. My relationship with him is with him.
Speaker 1:I don't say anything about how I feel. I don't want to burden him with my feelings or my, you know resentments, but he'll see it. One day He'll know what's what. Because guess what, I'm not supposed to know and I already told you but it's being hidden from me because, you know, I'm not part. I was told I'm not part of the family anymore but the golden child is pregnant. Uh well, he's not, but his wife is pregnant with their first baby. So I'm standing here with like a telling smirk, but it's going to be interesting, to say the least, what happens when golden child's baby comes into play and my son isn't the only grandchild anymore. I think we're gonna my son's gonna have a harsh reality to face. We're gonna see how this goes, but I'm just gonna sit back with the popcorn and watch the show and when my son gets rejected he can come to mama. Mama's always here. I'll be like join the club.
Speaker 2:You know, they had this huge property and faith wasn't allowed to have a bike with a tricycle. He, they didn't want her driving in the driveway, she wasn't allowed to ride the bike. She wasn't you know, and it's like why can't you?
Speaker 1:ride a bike.
Speaker 2:The driveway was flat the whole way, there was no hill. No, she's not allowed to have bed on there. And after my egg donor made the comment, it was pretty, faith is just original smartass. So she had told Faith that if I had died on the operating table then she wouldn't be upset. She wouldn't care because she doesn't love me. This is what she said to my daughter before I went in for a surgery. So it wasn't that much longer before her birthday came around and I actually took the picture when we left because I thought it was priceless. I'll have to send you a picture of it to show you. So she says I made something for Mimi because it's all Mimi, mimi, mimi, mimi.
Speaker 2:And I was like okay, and she's like I want her to see it. Okay, All right, so she gives it to her. Now we don't even get to have dinner with her because she's with the golden boy and all that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So makes a big deal, opens it up. Now you have to imagine. It's this like wrinkled old lady and a little one and there's a rocking chair behind it and the little one is holding a bucket and says kick it.
Speaker 1:Oh, kick the bucket I like how you're laughing.
Speaker 2:These people are unbelievable oh, faith gave that to her, for her faith gave that to her.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry I've got so. I I think I was so like shocked. Well, that doesn't surprise me, okay. A little one told me in the bucket. Well, what was their?
Speaker 2:reaction Did she just rude and has no manners or what? I literally thought I was going to pee down my leg. I was laughing so hard Because she was like, well, this is what I think of you, Because you're telling my mom who's never left my side for a second and the only person who supports me and stands by me you don't care, you don't love her. And the next thing I know, you know you're telling me you don't care if she lives or dies. So here kick the bucket. Wow, and that's why I love.
Speaker 1:I love your relationship with your daughter and I think that's amazing and that's why I actually like I, I'm not jealous of it, but I envy that because of everything that my son and I went through and we always had each other's back and he protected me and I protected him and that's what I miss is having that kid that's got my back, because I know you do, and I'm not trying to poo poo on my son, but you know it is hard.
Speaker 1:I feel bad for him because he's trying to be diplomatic, he doesn't want to choose mom, he doesn't want to choose dad, he doesn't want to choose grandma or grandpa or that other grandma or you know, and he's trying to play all sides. But that's why I just keep my mouth shut and I don't want to be that person, that but. But I wish I, I, I wholeheartedly wish that once in a while he might act like Faith and give his grandparents something awful like that, Just because it would make me feel loved. That is the gift I want. So go back to that question. That is the best gift I could have.
Speaker 2:She used to do pranks on my on sperm donor and he hated it like she. They had these beautiful bathrooms, I mean stunning black onyx with. One of them was black onyx bathroom, and she took, she took water bottles and she said, raisin, raisin, the toilet down, down downstairs is is got water running everywhere. He's like what, like what, and he's furious. And so he goes down there and she has open bottles of water and spilt the bottles of water all around the toilet on the tile floor and she said, look, it's the run, the water's running out of the toilet. And it's hysterical. I mean, it's just little bits of water, little tiny bits.
Speaker 2:And he was freaking out he was furious, he was furious, he was furious and he's like you're going to clean it up. The maid doesn't come till Tuesday Clean it Unbelievable. I was like it's just a joke. It's funny Like it's. You know it's a tile floor. What's it going to do? I?
Speaker 1:know, but you know they're just where. It's all about the stuff and what they have. And to show like I couldn't park in mine's driveway, you know, without him commenting, is your, is your vehicle going to leak oil? I'm like I have a brand new vehicle Like why was it going to leak oil? Well, I think it's going to leak oil and move it to the street where it's not like whatever. I can't handle that crap. We know what's what. But people that are, you know, if they think they're going to take all their stuff with them when they die, that's fine, because I know it's not going to be left to me.
Speaker 2:So Well, we did get through two and a half pages, which is nice.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. I think that's a record. It is. It is a record, but we're going to say it as we always do Keep sending them in, because we will keep coming back and answering them. We love doing this for you guys and we love the stories, we love the sharing, we love the comments. Feel free to compliment. We prefer no criticism, but you know, if it's due then we'll take it.
Speaker 2:We're tough, we've been there, so just keep sending it in, keep listening and more importantly, if you think that anybody out there can benefit from everything anything we talked about today, but hopefully everything please share this episode because hopefully hearing it from somebody else might help them out to create a playlist of narcissistic music to make you feel good when you hear it. What songs do you believe should be on this list?
Speaker 1:And so, I don't think I can do that because all three of my books have playlists already. Every chapter is a song.
Speaker 2:Well, no, I know, but you can name one to go in it. If we were making an album for narcissistic survivor.
Speaker 1:There's so many, but yeah, I think it's a good know. Survivor. There's so many, but yeah, I think it's a good idea because there's a lot of music out there, a lot of love. They can go in and turn on the oh, a hundred percent. There's enough abcdefu. There's a lot of f? You songs out there and quite a few of them are on my chapter title list.
Speaker 2:I thought that'd be great if people wrote in, because you never know, that would be good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let us know. And you know the other thing, and I'll throw this out there I always had like an anthem like when I divorced my ex Sorry, not Sorry, by Demi Lovato was literally like my anthem, like it was my song. I would strut to it, I would belt it out in the car and the second I left the attorney's office after the judge dissolved our marriage, man, I blasted that song and sang that out like nobody's business. So if you have like an anthem like that to like share it, what's your song, what's your? You know, not necessarily your jam, but like that song that gives you that confidence and, like you know, says the f, you or whatever.
Speaker 2:It is the empowering song yeah, faith said mine would be angel with a shotgun.
Speaker 1:Oh and yeah, it's one of her I've never heard it, but I like the title right, I used to say, uh, gunpowder and lead. Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm still an angel with a shotgun. That sounds like a book title. That's a good book title.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then now she says I'm titanium. That's on titanium. But that is a good one for people who've survived especially what you've survived, because you literally do have like metal in your body. You are my plate and tools.
Speaker 1:I I'm ready for dinner I will never travel with you. I can't go through. Oh my god, are you kidding? I went to.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I should say this on air. I go in through metal detectors and I beep and I'm like it's my body, it's everywhere. And they're like oh, you're so sweet, we don't worry about. Oh goodness, don't let me go in. I I got to go adjust and I have guns and knives and shit all over me and they're like put your bag through the thing and let them inspect it. Okay, it's on my person. And I go through and I'm like I have cards that say you know, she's got metal here. And I'm like pick a card, any card, take one. And I'm the girl that's always standing there. Take off your hoodie take off your everything.
Speaker 1:You know. They got me stripped down to leggings and a tank and I've got my hands over my head Like I'm under arrest and they shake me down just to make sure and I'm like I'm wearing leggings and a fitted tank. I'm pretty sure you would be able to see if they're unbelievable at the airport. But yeah, they took us. We had our make-a-wish shirts on.
Speaker 2:We were wearing make-a-wish shirts and they took us out of the line to check us. I'm like, are you serious? You have these people over here. Questionably could be suspicious in a way not profiling, but look at their jets, look how they're wearing. It's like 90 degrees outside and they're in like five coats. I mean, come on and I'm wearing a make-a-wish shirt and pants, and so is faith, and they take us over. I'm like I am not bending over, you're not going to invade her. This is not how this is going to work. We're make-a-wish recipients and it was just like what about? I said if I get on the plane with them, there's child would be paid. It's all I'm gonna say. They get on that plane and you haven't checked in that way. You better hope we don't land.
Speaker 1:Fun stuff. Here's something else. All right, people, we're signing out. We love you and I love you, Victoria. I know you love me. It's all the love we're spreading.
Speaker 2:All this, love, love, love. We'll be back. Stay tuned, follow us, like us, like everything, and we will see you again.
Speaker 1:Thanks guys, nighty night.
