A Contagious Smile Podcast
A Contagious Smile is a powerful platform dedicated to uplifting and empowering special needs families and survivors of domestic violence. Through heartfelt stories, we shine a light on the journeys of extraordinary individuals who have overcome unimaginable challenges. Their triumphs serve as a testament to resilience and strength, inspiring others to rediscover their own inner light. Each episode features candid interviews with survivors, advocates, and experts who provide valuable resources and insights to support those on their own paths to healing and empowerment. Join us as we celebrate the power of resilience, the beauty of shared stories, and the unstoppable spirit of those who turn adversity into hope. Let us guide you in rekindling your spirit, because every smile tells a story of courage and transformation.
A Contagious Smile Podcast
Laughter and Healing: Navigating Narcissistic Family Challenges, Embracing Self-Worth, and Building a Supportive Community TRIGGER WARNING
Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to Narc. Narc, who's there? Help, I'm gasping for air. This is Dana S Diaz with Dr Victoria, and apparently Gizmo is here again. He just jumped up. He must have heard we started recording. He wanted to say hi or not. But we are here again to answer your questions and break down narcissism and guide you along the way of getting these people out of your life and dealing with them in unpleasant circumstances. And I don't know how are you doing, victoria? You feeling better, hopefully?
Speaker 2:Hey, if this is what I have to go through to get you to open the show. Hey, if this is what I have to go through to get you to open the show.
Speaker 1:Yes, we have had issues of Dana not opening the show before, but it's all right. I feel like it's something about you, I don't know like. I feel like I'm helping you now, so it's different. It's a different aspect.
Speaker 2:I love it, I love it hey, you know I was so excited. I know I I waited to say this on air so she can't jump my ass this bad. But um, I'm so excited when I got in the mail yesterday I got my suture removal kit, because I will be taking out my 100 plus stitches myself. So I just literally, when I got it, I was like, yeah, so I haven't waited, not even at a week yet. And it's a process. I push myself way too far and I admit that I own it, I do it. So you know it is what it is, I do. I push it way too far. I went grocery shopping today. The doctor's like no lifting of anything heavy and I'm like, well, don't have to worry about picking up your ego. So yeah, so, no, yeah, so no lifting or anything yet and went to the grocery store, got groceries it's raining, you're not supposed to get it wet, you know.
Speaker 2:Then I'm like you can wash it with antibacterial soap. So how can I wash it if I'm not supposed to get wet?
Speaker 1:so yep oh dear, yeah, I mean we all know that you're bionic and strong is an understatement and all this. But I swear you just want to test the limits. I swear you just want to keep pushing to find out where exactly, if there is some limit for you. But I don't foresee one. So I will just sit here and sigh and worry and pray. But not me. I'm a baby, I'm a big baby. If I was in your shoes, I would probably still be in bed and I would be crying that I feel miserable or I would be hopefully sleeping it off. But I can't take pain. Honest to God, if you so much as pinched me, or like, if I get one of those terrible, like paper cuts, those really awful ones, like right on that, oh my gosh, yeah, I complain about it for days. It's awful, awful. You don't want to watch me take out my stitches.
Speaker 2:No, no, I'm good. Are you sure I don't get queasy? My surgeon tried. He said I can't do it one-handed.
Speaker 1:I don't know how you do it one-handed yeah, I don't know how you do anything one-handed, because sometimes I'm carrying gizmo, like here's me, I have two arms and two hands and I'm carrying a cat and I'm like I can't do this with one hand and I put him down and then he's clawing at my feet because he wants me to pick him back up. I'm like I can't. I should send him to you because you apparently can do everything one-handed. You have to do stuff.
Speaker 2:I give you so much credit. I don't like asking for help ever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a trauma thing. We take care of ourselves, right.
Speaker 2:I understand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm just glad that you're here. You sound a lot better than you did the last time I spoke to you. You look a lot better. You look a little pale, but that's okay, I'm not wearing makeup Is that what it is? Your hair looks scary makeup. Is that what it is? Your hair looks scary. Maybe your lighting is different too, because your hair looks a lot redder than it normally does.
Speaker 2:Well, I, haven't had anything done to it. Yeah, I'm just saying it must be the lighting.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think it's great, yeah, so yep I'm a creep keeper, so, all right, we're gonna jump in. Are you ready? Let's do it. We're still getting people writing us left, right and center, which I love, and I thank them for so much, because I love that people are listening and they thank us constantly for what we do and it just means so much to us because we feel like we're making a difference.
Speaker 2:And even if it's one person, that's still a huge difference for us, because we went through it by ourself and I'm pretty sure I can say this safely for Dana is that we don't want anybody to go through this at all, let alone by yourself. So that's kind of where we are and why we want to help and hopefully these little nuggets here and there help. And I've had a lot of people tell me I don't know about you, but a lot of people say I feel validated because you took the time to read what I wrote and you don't say our name and you're really authentic and caring about our confidentiality and you really took time to talk about it and, like, really, both of you put your values and views into it and people really appreciate that and I get probably at least 15 or 20 of those a day this space where people can feel safe, where they can feel accepted.
Speaker 1:There is no judgment here. There is no, you know, nobody's trying to get into your business if you don't want them to be. This is a place where, like I put it, like people men and women, teenagers, people in their 70s and 80s, everything in between, of all different you know gender identities, sexual identities, political, you know preferences we can all come together here and none of that crap matters. We're just humans trying to help other humans get through this thing we call life. So thank you to everybody who is listening and writes in and supports us, because we're doing it for you and that's what it comes down to, and so I'm glad everyone's feeling validated. So, yeah, let's do a few more today. We'll try to get through a few more pages, not just a few questions.
Speaker 2:All right, so All right the unattainable standard. I remember the day I graduated college. My parents actually showed up Shocking, I know, only to brag about my sister's perfect GPA in middle school. When I crossed the stage, I felt prouder than I've ever felt in my entire life, because not only did I graduate college, I paid for it all my own, all my own. I was sorry. I felt proud until I crossed the stage when I knew that not only did I graduate college, but I paid for it on my own. My father looked at me and whispered after the ceremony had completed you could have done a lot better than you did.
Speaker 1:That moment not only shattered my joy but reminded me that I feel you on so many levels. On that. I remember the day of my college graduation. There were so many parts of that day I didn't get to write about in my first book because the focus of it was my romantic relationship of the time. But yes, I agree, my, my mother and stepfather actually showed up for it, which I couldn't even believe.
Speaker 1:But when we were all let out after, like you know, when they call your name and you cross the stage and you know most families when that's their graduate that they're there to support they've got the air horns, they're screaming something to support. They've got the air horns, they're screaming Something. It was like dead quiet. You just heard my heels click, click, click across the stage. So I just kind of put my head down, walk down and I and, by the way, I want to shout out to some random stranger that I don't even know, but I just remember this kid that was, I don't know, 20 aisles back as I was walking to my seat. Don't know him, never met him, but he put out his hand to give me a high five because I graduated and I thought you know, thank you to that one freaking person who was happy for me that day, because it sure wasn't my mother and stepfather nor my ex, who was also there. But when I went out after we were all released, my mother and stepfather nor my ex, who was also there. But when I went out after we were all released, my mother and stepfather were gone, like they didn't even wait for me to come out.
Speaker 1:And then I had the lovely comparison to my brother. After my brother grew up and graduated with his doctorate, it wasn't, oh, we're so proud of him. Well, there was a lot of we're so proud of him because he was, you know, the next coming of Jesus and everything. But my stepfather turned to me and I'll never forget it said well, that makes your his doctorate, makes your bachelor's degree look like a kindergarten education. And it was so insulting because I also paid for about half of my college education and it wasn't cheap. Private Catholic institution, depaul, and I wanted to go back for my master's but I didn't have the money and I couldn't get a loan because, guess what, my parents made too much money but they wouldn't help me get financial aid. They would not even look at the financial aid papers.
Speaker 1:So again, whoever this is. This isn't me venting and complaining and all this resentment, but it's just to let you know that I get it. But what I have learned is that nobody can make you feel anything unless you let them, unless you feel it. And I understand, I have internalized all that crap from my childhood too and, believe me, undoing it is a whole other beast. But I encourage you and hope that you can get to the point where what somebody says does not matter and you don't have to react and maybe, hopefully, one day you're brave enough to just not even have anything to do with them, because you aren't ever going to compare, you are never going to do anything that rates any better than that golden child sibling. And I know, you know what that's like. Victoria, dr Victoria, and even though you've always said that your brother, could you know, had so much more potential, you're still never going to be what he is in their hearts, and that's just what being a scapegoat child is.
Speaker 2:It is, it is, absolutely it is, and it's heart wrenching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, nobody wants to feel second rate. That's awful.
Speaker 2:No, and you're never going to be good enough, doesn't matter what you do.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2:Even if you went and got your doctorate and you were a medical doctor, say you went into general, you know general practitioner. They're not going to be like oh, you could have been a surgeon, oh, you could have been a, you know cardiothoracic, whatever it is it'll always be something.
Speaker 2:You would still have not gotten some achievement. That would have been better. So, and inside your head, you, you know, you have to learn to. You know, even if you say it just to yourself, like I've always been. Well, you know, I wrote a book and I was told.
Speaker 2:Well, he wrote a paper and he wrote a paper and it was about Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory for his masters I'm not kidding, for his masters, yeah, and for real. And I read it, um, and she was like it's been downloaded like a hundred times. Well, she's going in there and download, download, download, download, download, download, right, whatever. And I I'm like he wrote a paper, good for him, you know, and and thing is like I wrote a book and I mean it doesn't matter. So I had to get to the point where I would say things in my head, quietly to myself, because I'm still a redhead, I'm a half yankee, so you know, I have that disposition and temperament, but I'm also that sweet person who will lay down and die for you, but until you, I will never start it, but I will stop it and that's will lay down and die for you, but until you I will never start it, but I will stop it and that's how faith got.
Speaker 2:It is for me hands down, so I believe it.
Speaker 2:So the thing is, is that, like I'm a pit bull, when you, when you cross someone I love and so she, you know my sperm and egg donor were like, well, you know, he wrote a paper and I'm like and it wasn't very long and it was a lot of quotes off of whatever and I just looked at her and quietly said in my head and the reason I'm saying this is for everybody when they have that moment and you're, you know, don't give in to them, because when you go at them they're winning. They want you to so that they can tell everybody they attacked poor old me. And they said, yes, they said that, don't do it. Just say quietly in your head like I looked at my egg donor when she said this and I was like, oh okay, well, I didn't cross my legs into the wide open stance of the Grand Canyon at 18, 19, you know, and end up getting knocked up and pregnant.
Speaker 2:And then somebody proposed in a dirty movie by saying it would just be cheaper to marry you than to continue to pick you up. And then you elope and go to McDonald's. So it wasn't even Burger King, you weren't even going to get it your way. So you know, you say this to yourself in your head, you have all the lines you just say to yourself in your head and then you just feel that satisfaction because if you give it to them then they're going to spin it to make it worse for you.
Speaker 1:So don't yeah, because that's the thing they want. The reaction and, by the way, for anyone who's new to narcissism, what this is called is triangulation. They are triangulating the two siblings by making one the golden child and making one the scapegoat. But the scapegoat they want you to keep trying. They want you to want their approval. The second you stop trying to get their approval. They know they've lost and they'll try harder and they will diminish you, they will discredit you, they will D everything. You don't let them. You just have to. You have to know who you are and and just withstand it all, knowing that it's their stuff that they've got going on, not yours. So don't, don't take that burden from them. Let them carry it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely All right. Every year on my birthday, we had a grand event for my siblings. My siblings received gifts and they had parties. Yes, this is correct. On my birthday they received the gifts and they had the parties. I was ignored. Now it turns to my 16th birthday and my siblings have all gotten cars and trips and things of that nature. I'm the baby and yet I sat alone at a dinner table while my family celebrated my sister's newest achievement. I was invisible and it hurt more than anyone knew. I would never be worthy of their love. But who in the hell does birthday parties for the other siblings and not the child whose actual birthday it is?
Speaker 1:I've never heard of anything like that. I've never heard of that. I mean, the closest thing that I've experienced was somebody in my ex's family Okay, it was his sister. I'll just say it would have like half birthdays for her kids and the actual birthdays and I thought that was a little much because she literally would be like, oh, and this is what they want and whatever, like present. She expected presents and on half birthdays and I'm like, well, crap, can I have half birthdays? Like that would work. Phenomenal for me, being an after Christmas baby, I would love it. End of June, summer pool party with presents and pina coladas. But yeah, that's outrageous. But I mean, I think this just speaks to how far narcissists will go. I have, I have I've had a lot of people share stories with me, like at book signings and things where I mean I have heard some really horrific things that they've asked me not to repeat, but where the one child is like outrageously singled out and treated differently than the rest.
Speaker 1:But that's pretty bad. I mean I don't even know what to say. I almost just want to hug that person because, you know, I think we all deserved better, but I don't want anyone to think that they didn't. You know that they're not worthy of better. I don't want them to think that there's something actually wrong with them because some other a-hole be it a parent and siblings decided that that was okay.
Speaker 1:And I think what really upsets me about this and it's something I struggle with every single minute of every day of my life is the fact that other people can be aware of crap like this and not say anything or do anything about it. I do not understand inaction, because when you can witness this or hear about it or know about it and let it happen, like just look the other way and, oh you know, or people say I don't want to get involved, do you know how many kids are dead because somebody didn't get involved? Or how many women and children have been murdered by some? Or vice versa, a man and the children? People can, in the worst circumstances, be killed because people didn't want to get involved or people want to pretend it's not happening.
Speaker 1:That pisses me off because let me tell you whoever wrote that in, if I was aware, even if I was just your friend at that time probably somewhere around 13, 14, 15 is when I started to get really mouthy Boy I would have had some words for those people in your house. Would it have made a difference? Probably not. You probably would have suffered for it, but I would have. I would have had your back, I would have taken up for you, and I'm sorry that nobody did. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's horrible. I mean I'm thinking back because you know this person. It was a girl and she was saying that she was the baby and that her siblings all got cars and uh, you know, and different gifts and trips and things of that nature. So if she's the baby and the other ages aren't aren't written in here, but let's just say you know, there's a few years at least between them, between her and her siblings going up, and when she's like five, six, eight, nine, you know, these kids are still so much older than her. This is like do you have your barbie party? Do you have your princess party? Do you have a little princess party? Do you have a little pony party, whatever it is? And you're giving parties to everybody else and this kid is six, seven, eight years old and you wonder why there's bullying at school.
Speaker 2:Because they have no outlet. They have no outlet. Where are they supposed to go? Your home is supposed to be your safe haven. That is supposed to be the one place that you can go, that you know that you are unconditionally accepted and loved and safe, and so many of us are not given that opportunity. You know it's like a jail with a door that you could open and shut.
Speaker 1:It's basically you know literally like you leave it once in a while, but, like for me, I would go to school and I would get picked on at school at first grade, high school. It didn't matter. There was always something wrong, that somebody would spit on me, pull my hair, whatever. But you know the other thing I'm thinking about? I remember, like this is a horrible thing, that the universe thought it was funny to have me born on my mother's birthday. So, yeah, I love that freaking day every year. So, yeah, I love that freaking day every year and it's coming up pretty quick, but I remember growing up.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be 21. No, I've quit trying for 21. I'll go for 39 now because even 29 is pushing it. But it was hard growing up because some years, some years, I would get like a card and well, I would always get a gift and a card, I should say. But like some years, like I think two years, I was allowed to have like some friends sleep over, like have a party, and I think one year I had a showbiz or Chuck E Cheese or something party and I was really excited. Literally I'm thinking that's three birthdays out of how many I spent in my childhood.
Speaker 1:Most of those years, particularly as I got older, it was I remember my stepfather would bring my mother a cake and balloons and flowers and they would just be celebrating. Like I'd be up in my room, like nobody would even call me down and say we're having cake, but it was just. It would say on the cake, just happy birthday and then my mother's name. It never said and Dana, or to the two of you. It was always for her and I mean you want to talk about like I. This is probably close to what this listener felt, but it's an awful thing. I mean there were times I would come down the stairs and see it and just kind of creep back up without making a noise or being noticed, because I'm like, okay, well, I guess it doesn't matter, but I didn't matter, and that was the thing. And that's why they do these things they want you to know how insignificant you are.
Speaker 1:Now, in my situation, I had a younger sibling, 14 years younger, my half brother. So he wasn't old enough to you know, while I was still living at home, he was still a toddler. But if I had siblings that were my age, that were receiving presents on my birthday and cake and all this stuff, like I said, that's the part that bothers me, like in my head. Most kids address injustice, they notice it, and I'm thinking why didn't any of those siblings, during any of those years, be like where's her gift, mom? Why didn't she get? Why are we getting gifts? And she didn't get one.
Speaker 1:Right, and maybe that was said, and I'd love to know what the mother's answer was, if this listener wants to address that, because I'm just intrigued at this point to know what this POS had to say about. You know what excuse she had for not honoring her own child on her birthday. That's terrible, though it's just terrible. But again I say this is narcissism. They don't care if you're a newborn baby or 90 years old or anything in between. If they want to make you feel like a piece of crap, they're going to make you feel like a piece of crap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is so true. That is so true. When I dared to express my feelings, I received the silent treatment. For weeks, my parents would ignore my existence, leaving me to question my worth. The isolation felt like punishment for simply wanting just to be heard. I learned quickly that silence was another way of them controlling me out of their box of torture. I've said that from day one, and then I tell people, get it, go get that, because then you don't have to hear it.
Speaker 1:I know and I love your view and honestly I wish we were really sisters because I could have used you growing up, because my mother and stepfather did the same thing and it would sometimes be if I a few days, a few weeks the longest I think was like two or three months I would tell you it's awful. My thing is this I mean growing up with that when you do that to a this. I mean growing up with that when you do that to a child. I mean, let's be real, I've said this before, but people I don't think really get it. This is a military war tactic. Our military used it in Guantanamo Bay on war hostages, to break them down, to manipulate them, to be able to brainwash and control them or get them to buckle down and reveal whatever it is they wanted to know. This is not to be used on your children or the people that live in your home or in any civilian manner. It's horrific.
Speaker 2:It is, it is awful. And I mean, they really don't care, and I don't really know how you can affect them like how? I mean nothing happens to them, they don't care. Like you don't get to see them feel deflated in any way no you know.
Speaker 2:so how come they don't ever get to experience what they provide to others, and it's not a a happy provision. It's like why don't you ever you should have to feel what you get Like? You know, I love paying it forward and making people smile and bringing happiness to people. If they hurt people, why can't they know for just a minute what it feels like when they do this to other people?
Speaker 1:Well, now you're getting into a philosophical conversation to which I would briefly respond. I think that we all have a purpose in this life and not everybody is meant for even the slightest level of self-awareness or humanity. Some people are meant to challenge the rest of us, to force us to rise to our true potential, so I use them as stepping stones. Now I don't, I try to shift my perspective, as you know that I think they're pieces of you know what, but you know what. I'm going to keep climbing over them and all their bull and go to the top, and I'm going to take everyone who they've hurt with me, because that's where we belong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely everyone who they've hurt with me, because that's where we belong. Yeah, absolutely. Why can't you? Well, I know how this one goes. Why can't you be more like your brother? I've heard this phrase countless times. No matter, whatever I did, it was never good enough. My accomplishments never good enough. I was always overshadowed by my brother's success. I felt crushed under the weight of constant comparison. I believed I was destined to fail at everything I did, from my very first memory.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's the point of it is to make you feel like I always the way I used to feel about it and how I've written it is I had to be the nothing they thought I was.
Speaker 1:Right in it is. I had to be the nothing they thought I was Right. I had to be incompetent, I had to be deficient, I had to be again D, everything for them to be able to, you know, praise my brother for you know, I'll never forget when he read his first word at like, what, what? Three, four years old, one word, and I even remember the word fine, f-i-n-e and he pronounced it Finney and made a comment about the book must be about fish and yes, it's funny, but they just thought he was a genius, he was Albert Einstein because he could, you know, read a word and it was just. It's so funny to me the little things, like you said about the paper versus your book.
Speaker 1:You know my brother also, when he was in college, had he was, he has a doctorate in physics now and he had a study published in a journal of physics and I, I, honest to God, don't even know how many copies of that, but I know it was probably a hundred at least. If you saw the piles and the boxes of this journal of physics that, like I, was proud of my brother. But I'm not going to sit there and read it. I don't need a copy. I don't understand. I'm not a science person, like, good for you, but like and I don't know who my stepfather thought he was going to give it to, he's, I think, stopped school at sixth grade, no joke. Like, how would he understand any of? Oh yeah, I'm dead serious. Yeah, the man who's telling me I have a kindergarten education, yeah, yeah, and he didn't make it past sixth grade.
Speaker 1:But that's what they do. Again, it's about making you feel deficient so they could feel better. And I think that that's part of the scapegoating too, is they want the golden child, for whatever reason, to be the golden child. So they have to make sure that nothing it's back to the same stuff nothing you say or do, nothing you ever accomplish can possibly come anywhere near what the golden child does. But it's so awful and I know you experienced that a lot with your brother because you were more the same age with mine. We were definitely, I mean, being 14 years apart, that that's nine, nine years, you're nine years. Yeah, that's closer, though, because you were in the house with him longer. Yes, I guess is my thing as minors. I was only in the house, maybe three years, four years, three years or so, four years, maybe whatever before I left home. But yeah, you were in much longer having to deal with that crap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love the show. I love what you guys are doing. Thank you so much for all of it. We listen intently myself and one of my best friends, who both experience things, but differently. I was the scapegoat, she was the golden child, so we both have a lot of respectives on a lot of different things. I was just curious if both of you could tell me whether or not you ever had any problems with female friends coming over, how they were treated and how that helped you or hurt you in your friendships.
Speaker 1:Oh all, it didn't matter female or not. I mean, I had male friends once in a while come over and not like in that way. I'm talking, like you know, when we were like seven, eight, nine years old, but it didn't matter male or female. Honestly, my friends were treated like crap. And very early on I should say this they were treated just as nicely as I was, which I thought was strange, because usually my stepfather usually was the only one home and usually he put on the show of what a great, funny guy he was and all that. Only I was privy to the monster side of him. But no, he treated my friends like crap.
Speaker 1:But I think, looking back, what do I always say? Isolation is narcissism 101. Yeah, it got it very quickly Some. I think I had two friends that would come over if they really had to like if I just couldn't get to them for some reason. But outside of that it usually was a one and done. Somebody would come over and pretty quickly they were just like see you later, have fun with that crap, never again.
Speaker 1:And some and I had that in my previous marriage too I watched my son go through the same thing.
Speaker 1:We'd have play dates with friends, my ex, you know again there's so much stuff I couldn't put in that first book Gasping for Air but he not only verbally attacked small, I'm talking like five-year-old kids that were over the place, six-year-old kids. He even handled one once like literally physically put his hands on him and violently shook him, like I literally had to throw my body between them and like I grabbed the child and ran. So I think this is just their way of isolating. But some of them might use the opportunity to look like oh, look at me, I'm so great and I'm funny and I'm I'm a great guy or a great gal, so that your friends think that you're nuts when you tell you know they can go either way. It depends what they decide to do, I suppose. But that was my experience, just like my son. It was just like let's just treat them like crap so they never come here again. And that's what happened. So I was alone a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, if anyone's read Nart and Ark, I think they. Yeah, I had friends that I kept a very tight circle and it took a lot to get into that circle and, like my best friend that I had since preschool passed away and and, of course, my sperm donor hit on her left, right and center and I wanted to go to the funeral and his answer was, well, she's not gonna know, you're not there. So, know, and, oh my gosh, yeah, and so that was that was really hard. Um, I had a person that was a really good person that would come over and hang out. Um, this is when I was older and, uh, faith was alive, and so when he would see her, he would come out and be like he wanted to be. You know, clark gable, he just wanted to come out. Oh, yeah, suave, and you know, whatever, and one day she was having car problems and something was going on with her car and and he was like, I'll look under the hood for you and yeah, and so she always felt very uncomfortable with him because he would stare at her.
Speaker 2:She was voluptuous, um, to say the least, and so he would always stare at her and he's like, well, I have a friend that's a mechanic, we can take it up there and let him look at it. Let's drive it around the neighborhood to see. And she's like okay, here are the keys. And he was furious. He was like, no, you and I'll go driving around the neighborhood and we'll we'll see. And and she's like, well, well, you can drive it, that's fine, you know I'll stay here. And he was like don't waste my time. How dare you waste my time? I offered to come out here and take you to the place and get it checked. And blah, blah, blah, blah, and and you know I don't have time for this and and she was devastated. And so he went in the house and of course I had that mindset still and I went running in there, just like I always did. I apologized for someone else's behavior that I had nothing to do with and I was like she's just really shy, you make her uncomfortable. And he was like why I didn't do anything? All I'm trying to do is help and you're wasting my time. Do you know? I could be doing other things right now and you know this is just like you to waste my time in my afternoon. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:So she agrees to go in the car with him and go get it looked at by his friend who's a mechanic. And then I followed them in my vehicle and Faith was with me, and they were like, oh, give us an hour and come back, we'll see what it is. And so we end up going to Target and just walk around. So when we do, it's freezing out, right. And so Faith has her jacket on and I'm shivering, and they get out, everybody gets out, and she's, you know, cold, and he takes off his coat and wraps it around her and they walk in together and I'm, I'm like you know, and and they went off on their own, they wouldn't even stay with us and all of a I was like this girl was just 20 minutes ago, not wanting to be in the car alone with him.
Speaker 2:And then I asked her quietly I'm like, hey, so how did this turn around so quickly? And she said, well, he's paying to have my car fixed if I have dinner with him. And so, needless to say, this was very, very common. This was very common. And so I was like well, have a good friendship with him or whatever you may do, but I'm done like I will take you back to your vehicle. And I'm done because you know about him, you know how disgusting he is.
Speaker 2:You you've hated him all along, but because he's gonna walk out and give you some franklins, he walked around with like two, three inches of hundred dollar bills on him at all times and he's gonna just buy you. Then you know what. Good riddance, because I don't have time for it. And this was very, very common. He would always flirt and come over um, and then he would tell his wife that he was having dinner with the girls, but he wouldn't have dinner with us unless another female was going. And this was just a common thing that he did. And I don't know how my egg donor never caught on or saw it. And even when I finally came to her without malice and tried to show her who she was really married to I guess money can make you warm in some aspects because she didn't know that's my mother too, my mother repeatedly over the years.
Speaker 1:You know, when we would have conflict over my stepfather, she would always come back with well, how would I live if I wasn't married to him? I wouldn't have my house, I wouldn't have my car, I wouldn't have it. And I, you know, that seemed to be what it was. From the beginning too, you know, she didn't think that she could come out of the city with no education and nothing to fall back on and a kid nevermind all that and ever make anything of herself. But but he already had a house that he stole from his ex-wife and their divorce, after he was already screwing my mother, but whatever. But yeah, he had a car, he had a good job, he had the money, most of which he got fraudulently and still does.
Speaker 1:But some people want the stuff, they want the life, and that was my mother. You know, as a relative of mine put it, everybody. You know that every gold digger goes about it a different way, you know, and some women are like our mothers. But I have a theory, because you know the the, the golden child thing between your mother and your brother, I mean, some of this stuff crosses the line to me.
Speaker 1:One thousand mother golden child. Yeah, crosses the line to me of just mother golden child.
Speaker 2:yeah, if anybody who's listening if you've read narc, narc or any other?
Speaker 1:podcast. Yeah, exactly, yeah, we can never put everything in, that's the sad part, but I mean they've slept in the same bed together. They've said they were husband and wife on, like what? Cruises or hotels or what, yeah, so, so my thing is like I think you're, I mean, take a couple pictures, yeah, yeah, but I feel like your mother is fully aware, like mine, of her situation. She's fully aware that you're.
Speaker 1:Every woman that has a cheating husband knows damn well. You know, if you're the wife, if your husband's screwing around, he can't hide that too well, I mean, and I mean you have pictures. So think of all the other people who have probably approached her over the years. She doesn't care because she wants the life, but she is almost I don't know I need to come up with a term for it but she has basically turned your brother into her husband because she doesn't have. She's getting her needs met there and I mean you probably have already known this, but like it's like, yeah, exactly, but you know, not having sex is like the only thing that basically makes their relationship Well, yeah, I don't, don't roll your eyes, I don't know. So I, but I'm just saying assuming, presuming that there is no sexual relationship. That's the only thing separating it from what a husband and wife look like, or or partners in life, however the situation may be. But yeah, it's always very interesting.
Speaker 1:And cheating is something we don't talk about much and I don't know if it's because nobody wants to write in about it, because it's such a common narcissistic thing and you know, I don't want anyone to ever feel ashamed. If you are that person, believe me, my ex did it before we were married, after we got married, all the way till the end, and it got to the point where I didn't even care. I was just like kind of like how you feel about people, not, you know, with the silent treatment I'm like, well, thank God it's not me, I don't have to do it, you know. But it's something that I'm curious about other people's experience. If you're a listener and you want to share about that and of course we will keep it anonymous and not say your name if you don't want to but I'm curious what your experiences with that are, because it is very interesting.
Speaker 1:I actually recently had somebody you know you would have thought it was your father, because I've read Narc, narc, I know how these men operate and this isn't my first go around with a man either this all just happened yesterday, actually a man, either. This all just happened yesterday, actually A professional acquaintance that reached out and said oh, I read your second book and I would love to sit down and have lunch, because even at my age, you know, he's old enough, I would say, to be my father. I believe he has children my age, you know. He's like oh, you know, I didn't know my biological father either, and all this stuff. And I thought, oh well, that's such a compliment. I would love to sit down and talk with you.
Speaker 1:We set a date for this week and then throughout the day, he's sending me messages. I promise I'll behave myself. I'm like, okay, okay, don't like that, but he's not that type. Like I'm not, I'm not even going to react to it. And then it's like, oh, I try to, I try to be gentlemanly, but I don't know if I'll be in.
Speaker 1:You know, after a few of these I was like, okay, you know what I'm? Good, it's disrespectful. I am not a piece of meat, I am a human being. I thought you were interested in my mind and my thoughts and my company. You're interested in other things. I have a husband who I love. What you are doing is disrespectful to me, to my husband, to my marriage. Oh, and I don't know, maybe your wife and your marriage, mother trucker, but God darn, they all, all of them. And let me just put this out this man, very prominent in that particular town, chamber of Commerce, historical society, all the boards and all the bull crap that some of these older people do well, younger too. So everybody oh, what a nice guy. And everybody knows almost want to screenshot those text messages and see how nice his wife thinks he is. But the way he's playing it, I'm thinking this probably isn't his first go around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let faith have him.
Speaker 1:You know what, though? I'm not even going to get into it with these people because my husband wanted, wanted to. You know that makes me angry, because the guy knows him, he knows him. Yeah, they've met, they've had a beer together. Wow, I said I should send you to that lunch, you should go meet him and have a few words. But you know that nothing good would come out of that. But that's the thing I told Doug no, because you know what. I don't even want to talk about it anymore because we're giving it energy. Yeah, and why. You know he can take his little dinkity, dink and go somewhere else and toy with somebody else, but it ain't going to be with this girl. No, sir, I'll send my six, five, two, 20 husband over for lunch with him and he can have a talk with him about his behaving and his gentlemanly ways.
Speaker 1:Lord damn narcissist. I swear to God, I want badges. Before we came on, I said we should have badges and I do. I want to go, like I should tell. Oh, and, by the way, he did message me last night and said I hope you'll reconsider after I sent him I'm uncomfortable, I'm not participating in this bull crap and whatever. Oh, I hope you reconsider, reconsider. No, I want my badge. I want my badge so I could go just start arresting narcissists and cheaters and we could be like that show that, like caught cheaters and cheaters, yeah, yeah it could be fun.
Speaker 2:it could be fun it could be fun.
Speaker 1:Some guys like redheads. We could use you as bait and I'll bust in after. If they like brunettes, you know, and if they like something else, we can get wigs. I mean, we can have fun with this. We can have a lot of fun with this yeah, I got my wheels turning. I'm like, yeah, I know right, that's our next production. That would be so much fun.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm digging it. Oh, all right. Well, we know you got the shoes oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are the kind of shoes and god love that my grandma bought them.
Speaker 2:That's what's best I can shoes and God love that my grandma bought them. That's what's best. I can't wait Sit on this heel.
Speaker 1:Love my grandma. If it sparkles or it's sexy boy, she's on it.
Speaker 2:Awesome though. That's awesome yeah.
Speaker 1:I call her my hot mamacita.
Speaker 2:Hot, mamacita, I love it. I love it. All right. So I wore a mask of happiness, pretending to fit in with my family and families in quotes. During the holidays. I smiled through the pain of being the outsider. I would watch everybody laugh and hug and embrace, but deep down I felt like a ghost in my own life. It's exhausting to keep up the facade while feeling so alone. I really just want to scare the shit out of everybody.
Speaker 1:Aye aye, aye, yeah, I hear you though. Well, that's a good reference. Being a ghost, well, that's interesting because I remember once describing a similar situation to somebody telling them that it felt like that Christmas movie with the ghost of Christmas past and Christmas future, like I was just there and being shown like what life would be if I wasn't there. And you know it does suck, but you know we have gotten along just fine. I think we have to remember and we've said it before, when we say family, there is a presumption of blood relation, but your true family are the people that are really for you, that love you unconditionally. Even when you're a jerk, even when you don't say the right thing and make a mistake or don't act your best, they are there. They are there and they don't abandon you and they don't exile you and they don't diminish you and cut you down all these things. So you know, take it for what it is.
Speaker 1:Not all of us fit into our, uh, blood related family. Lord knows, I don't. And so the exile becomes easier to deal with um over time, cause I used to do the thing where I sat there, when I was still invited, when I would sit there and just smile or try so hard to have conversations. That felt so forced and so unnatural and I didn't leave there feeling good. So now it's like, yeah, I went through the few years of being sad and crying oh, I don't get invited anymore.
Speaker 1:I'm not family anymore and I'm not saying that like in a mocking way to make fun of anyone. I'm making fun of myself, if anything, because I laugh. Now I'm like I don't want to, I don't care if I'm not invited. Like I don't want to go. Yeah, like who the hell wants to go and endure that crap? I would rather sit at home in my pajamas with my cats stuffing my face with cookies or ice cream or whatever else that I'm going to have a stomachache all freaking night over and you know that's much better. You know binge on Netflix or something like why do you want to go? Submit yourself to that.
Speaker 2:Why? Very true, very, very true. When I was awarded a scholarship, I expected my family to celebrate. Instead, when I was awarded a scholarship, I expected my family to celebrate. Instead, I saw jealousy in their eyes, especially from my mother. She claimed that the committee who awarded these scholarships must have felt horrible for me when they saw me in person. Wow, I love it. She claims that my success also made her look bad. I realized that my achievements were seen as threats and not triumphs.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, I deal with that in my third book, which is coming out.
Speaker 2:Not soon enough.
Speaker 1:But jealousy and I didn't recognize it because I'm like, oh, that person shouldn't be jealous, that person should be Jealousy is a nasty ugly beast. So we have to look at psychologically when we're talking about narcissism. People like this it's all about their ego. When their ego is offended in any way in the slightest way, and, believe me, your success and your achievement just irritates the hell out of their demons, because it's like they're looking at a reflection of what they are not capable of and what they cannot do or maybe choose not to do. But boy does that piss them off when you achieve something. That's why they diminish you and do all that stuff.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it all comes back to jealousy because there are some people in this world that don't understand that there's room for everybody to have achievement, there's room for everybody to have success, and what success and achievement is isn't the same for everybody either. You know we had that, that letter from somebody what was it? The last episode that she was a dancer and she made the nutcracker and I love that for her, as somebody who used to dance, that like I know how huge that is. But to somebody that's not in that you know area or that's not their interest. They would have no idea how huge. But it doesn't matter, because if it's a big deal to you, if it's a success to you, if it's right, something that you're happy about, I mean it could be anything. It could be that, yes, you sewed a button on a shirt and you're excited, you could do that. People that love you will be happy for you. But when they get jealous, oh, forget it.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, that's not a sign of a good person the dancer? She didn't she. She danced all through elementary, middle and high school right, and then she got into production of the nutcracker and it was one of her parents right who wrote the horrific review yes, a review and then sent it to her.
Speaker 1:yeah, nice, nice family, so yeah, but you know that it's part, I hate to say these are every story we read every question. It's it's par for the course. Yeah, but I still like that we share these because I mean, you have shared your experiences, as I have, over and over, and we still have new ones are still sharing, you know, coming out of the vault, but you know, I think everybody can in some way relate. But they all come back to the root of the issue, which is just that you know, if somebody doesn't want you to be happy and doesn't want you to have success or whatever, or reach your potential, it doesn't matter if it's your mother, a friend, a sister, whatever, it's just not going to be a good relationship, right. But it's sad when it's the mother, cause I had a few times in my life where my mother, where I even had a friend once, that was like I think your mother's jealous of you and I'm like, but I'm her daughter, like shouldn't we Like? I always wanted I was, I was always envious of the girl, like a friend of mine in grade school, her mother, just she was an only child, but I mean, I guess she was probably her, the, the golden child, but she was the only child.
Speaker 1:But her mother just thought she, her kid, this girl, was the best thing ever. And every you know like concert, like a chorus concert or school recital, mom was in the front row taking pictures, smiling. She knew the words to everything. If there was a little dance, she knew all the moves. And I was like taking pictures smiling, she knew the words to everything. If there was a little dance, she knew all the moves. And I was like, and afterward it was all the pictures.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, why can't we all get that mom, like every mom should treat all of her kids that way if she could. And it just makes me sad that I mean, even if I had gotten one little tiny iota of that, my God, my life would have been so much better. But some parents just they just decide nope, I'll give it to that one but not this one. And I got the reject stamp on my head. That's okay, I'm good with it. Now I don't want to be like everyone else, I don't want to conform and I don't want to be a cookie cutter kid, you know so, so yeah, no, I get it.
Speaker 2:And, like in the Nart North book, I have so many and I chose what to put in, what not to put in, but so many examples where my sperm donor would use my disability from use or Faith's disability, and, like you know, he had a problem with air conditioning and it was going to cost a fortune in this 10,000 square foot house and and so you know he had somebody appraise that it would cost thousands and thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2:And he went to some whatever you call store and bought one of those portable AC things and it was like ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Or you know one time he said hey, let's go have something to eat. On whatever I always drove, always because I, I and I think that has to do with my past I never let it. I would never if I had the opportunity to let him drive. And so we ended up going to home depot and he was like, oh, I need to run in here for a second yada yada. And he goes and buys a generator for the 10 000 square foot house. And he goes in there, and he was.
Speaker 2:He goes to the manager and he was like hey, you know, I don't, we're just barely making it. We don't have any money. Blah, blah, blah. Is there any way to get this any cheaper? Yada, yada, yada. And has me go up to the counter with him and says oh, you know, do you guys do military discounts? Oh, okay, oh, you do, this is great. Well, you know, this is hers and can you all do something to help with insulation? And um, yada, yada, yada. And he was like we have to have it for the baby and they're like well, the, you know, we can't get it out there in the next week or so you know, because we're backed up. And so he was like well, our, you know, my, our baby's um and he always say our baby. He would never say his granddaughter or you know anything like that and it was.
Speaker 2:You know she's on all these. You know pumps and machines and whatever, and it's, you know, life support and she has to have it and if we don't have power then we gotta take her back to the hospital and he wouldn't find that hospital if he stood in front of it and so he would have them. You know waive the installation fee and you know give a refund and and do you know all these other things and discounts, and I don't understand how he would get it done, but he used the two of us to get any and everything he possibly could back in his pocket and you know he was claiming us on taxes and I was paying rent. You know it was. He didn't need any money.
Speaker 2:He trust me, they did not need any money and he would go around telling everybody oh I'm having to help pay the medical bills and I'm doing this and I had all the receipts and I had all of the proof that I made all the payments on everything, because I cleaned out my retirement and 401k and IRAs at that point and I had all the proof of everything. But he was telling everybody oh, I'm the good dad, I'm having to cover all these expenses. But he couldn't prove it. He couldn't show one foot of it.
Speaker 1:He's for all these expenses, but he couldn't prove it. He couldn't show one foot of it. He's full of crap. That actually brings to mind and I was thinking about that story, by the way, out of nark nark, when we were, when you were reading the question initially didn't he use some situation? It was something like he got someplace to donate something, saying it was for you guys. Yeah, it was something like he got someplace to donate something saying it was for you guys. Yeah, it was the wheelchairs with the basket, that's what it was.
Speaker 1:I was gonna say it was scooters or something, but yeah, they're the electric wheelchair scooters yeah so that him and his wife would have something to ride on at the car show but he took you in faith to pick them up because the store thought they were donating them to you.
Speaker 2:And faith, yes, yeah we gotta love these people. Ever, ever got in them.
Speaker 1:We never wrote in them, we never got to drive it nothing so I honest to god think that your, your sperm donor and my stepfather must be twins or came from the same cloth. I don't know why I'm thinking about this. I haven't talked about it in years, but so when I was I don't know right around when I turned 40, this was maybe 10 years ago, eight, nine, 10 years ago, my mother and stepfather ran a business out of their home, you know, and he suddenly made an application to the fire department and like I'm thinking you just started like you're about to collect retirement, like social security and this, and that because you know, love narcissists, they're always thinking about how they can get something. He puts the business in my mother's name only because she's nine, 10 years younger than him, so that he could collect retirement. Because if he would have shown that he was still making the income and supposedly had self-employment, so it was in her name, she was the one running the business. So he's collecting unemployment, social security.
Speaker 1:So then he goes and applies at the fire department and I'm like I literally point blank said to him why are you getting a job? Like you live in this, like your parents live in this humongous house with like way too many bedrooms and bathrooms, like I don't even know if they go in half of those rooms. But okay, and he said, well, because you know what he has to pay out of, you know, for insurance, medical insurance, that if, if he, he can go and work so many hours and collect this much money from an actual job and if he goes to the fire department like a government job, you get really good benefits, even if you work part time. And there was this whole reasoning and I'll tell you what that jackass got hired. And I'll tell you what that jackass got hired. Now here's the thing. Next thing, you know, my son and I are sitting together at some family barbecue listening to this jackass and he's very good with the facial expressions and all this. He knows how to play Telling different people. Oh yeah, I'm so glad that they let me join the fire department because I just want to help people. I've always wanted to help people. Oh yeah, I'm so glad that they let me join the fire department because I just want to help people. I've always wanted to help people.
Speaker 1:It got to the point he had people convinced. He's like carrying little babies out of burning buildings. This mother trucker was filling the gas on the fire trucks and making sure they were mechanic, like they were ready to go or whatever, whenever there would be a call and, honest to goodness, I went to the. God love these small little towns. It's so aggravates me. I need to move back to the city Sometimes.
Speaker 1:I think go to the post office one day and the gal you know, it's the same gal that everybody's known for, she's worked there for like 30 years and she goes oh, I'm just, I saw your. She calls him my father. Oh, I saw your father. He's so cool, I'm so glad he's the chief of the fire department now. Like he's not the chief of the fire department. I know the chief of the fire department, he's not it, oh. But he came in the other day and he was wearing a jacket with his name embroidered on the front and it's. I'm laughing because he annoys the hell out of me, but it's so like him and it just reminds me of something your dad would do.
Speaker 2:Oh, they totally would do this, they totally would do this, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I love it, I love it and I just laugh anymore.
Speaker 1:But I'm so glad, like when people mention their names. I'm like I just kind of put my hands up like, but I just don't go to places where I just I don't want to hear about it, it's so. But I mean it's like literally, when we were sitting at that barbecue, my son and I just looked at each other like rolling our eyes. Oh yeah, he's carrying babies out of burning buildings, like where no building has burnt in our town and I think we had one last year in the last five, ten years. Lord, help me oh, they're exhausting.
Speaker 2:They always need something stroked. That's all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 1:Uh-huh sorry, we went off on a little tangent there, so I apologize. I hope that listeners question.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean it is and it's, it's horrible, and they, you know the god complex that they carry, you know is is just yeah well, it speaks to the masks.
Speaker 1:You know your mother thinks you're. You know your brother's her husband or she treats him like that. And you know my stepfather thinks he's the chief of the fire department and your dad just thinks he's god's gift to women. And I'm sorry, I know you scratched out faces and stuff in that book, but those pictures I'm like, even if I was hot for married men, older men, no, I'm good, I'm good.
Speaker 2:You just always say think of what I could do if I had the internet. Think what I could do if I had the internet.
Speaker 2:Think what I could do if I had you know, texting back then and I was like he's like I was dating sisters and roommates and I was like you really should have left helen keller's compound alone. Like I told him. I was like I don't see what these women saw and I was like it had to have been very materialistic because he had a brand new convertible sports car A hundred percent. And I was like you. I told him he was like I was hot and I was like can I see where that came from? And I would look at pictures. I'm like you were the biggest dweeb. And I told him that I was like you were such a dweeb I said I would never have given.
Speaker 1:No, and I'm sorry, but you know like I don't know how like I'm Pinterest. I'm Pinterest Like I'm like looking at recipes and stuff and some jackass. I don't know where all these I have all these like dumb men stories today. No offense against men, it's just the dumb ones I don't like. But some guy like messages me on Pinterest and I like. But some guy like messages me on Pinterest and I'm not kidding you. Nothing in the actual message, just a picture of him like a selfie with like I don't know if it was a Ferrari or something and like a mansion with a pool. Like what was I supposed to? Like? Drop my panties, because he's got stuff like that doesn't keep me warm at night when I'm 80?
Speaker 1:are you going to wipe my ass because that's love? That is love. Your Ferrari is not going to wipe my ass. You won't be wiping my ass because you'll probably be screwing the 20 year old hot little maid you just hired like. And what is a mansion going to do for me? Nothing. I'd rather live in a tent with my husband, who loves me and will wipe my ass when I'm 80.
Speaker 2:Sorry, oh, they are overcompensating, they really are. I mean, he would walk around. I was, I was like scarred as a child because he would walk around and thank god my husband, michael, doesn't do this and I'm so ridiculous about it, like I have so many of my grandmother's like mentality on things. You know, like you never dress inappropriate, you know you always leave more to the imagination kind of thing. And like I wear like silk pajamas top and bottom to bed, um, you know. But like I'm scarred because first of all, he he is uh, six one, six, six one and I'm guessing maybe 170. But he had like bird legs, like bird legs and so very twiggy, twiggy legs, and he would walk around as a child and wear just tidy, whitey underwear and it would scare me to death. I don't know how I didn't become a lesbian. I'm serious, and that is nothing against the LGBTQ community. I support it a million percent.
Speaker 1:No, but that would definitely escape you as a child to see your dad walking around like that.
Speaker 2:He walked around in white tighty whities and it horrified me, I know. When I would go to my grandparents, he would wear long pajama bottoms and a T-shirt. Right, he would always wear long pajama bottoms and a t-shirt. Right, he would always wear long pajama bottoms and like a t-shirt. My grandmother wore a nightgown that went down to her feet, you know. But then my and my egg donor. This is disgusting. I'm glad I haven't had lunch yet. She only would wear lingerie that was bought for her by my brother. Hand up, oh yes, and she? And why the hell?
Speaker 1:is your brother buying his mother lingerie? My god, well, gay men have great taste, that's so. I'm sorry, I know you're not, but I would be. I, I'm a girl and I wouldn't buy my mother a lingerie. I think that's weird, I do too. I do too, but she, he would give her'm a girl and I wouldn't buy my mother a lingerie. I think that's weird, I do too.
Speaker 2:I do too but she, he would give her, you know, whatever and that's what she slept in every night. But he, when I'm young, I'm walking around and I'm like he would wear tighty whities and that horrifies me. So, like, from the jump with Michael, I'm like you were sleep shorts and a t-shirt and take the shirt off when we're in bed with the door shut, but, you know, and the shirt comes back on before you leave the room, kind of whatever. But like, how do you do that to a child?
Speaker 1:you know, I mean, it's just it's, it's, it's gross, it's gross, I'm just saying it's, but yes, it's like the guys on the beach that see, for me, we were always on, always on the beach.
Speaker 1:I'm a beach girl, so I've seen a lot of men in speedos and I feel, like, that's where I'm resonating with you, cause I yeah Like, why can't you just wear regular swim trunks? I don't know, that creeps me out. I think that men think that their bodies are, are attractive to women because women's bodies are attractive. But as a straight female, I'm going to say women's bodies are. I mean, a nice woman's body is a nice woman's body. Nobody can dismiss that fact, you know. I mean, we can all appreciate stuff about a woman. A man, though, let me tell you, if you're a man and I'm sorry if you are hearing this for the first time your junk does not, no, entice us. It doesn't, it doesn't put it away. That's why god made underwear. You're taking it out to have fun.
Speaker 2:No, that's why god made underwear, because this stuff is ugly, like what's that greek statue?
Speaker 1:is it adonis or whatever? Like they have it in front of caesar's palace in vegas, and I think I saw a rendition at the louvre in paris, but like the stuff is just like all shriveled and bald and hanging and wrinkly and that does not. Yeah, that doesn't get me hot and bothered no not at all at all. It's gross it's gross.
Speaker 2:Okay, I normally share a faith story. I gotta give it to you because this is pretty fun. We went, there was a thing, uh, a bodies exhibit. I know you would never go to it. It's actual human bodies. Oh, I would go, really it's real human bodies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't have shame when it comes to my body, so I think people have shame. I refuse to so. I think that's cool that people will do that. These are hundreds of years. I just don't want to see their junk. That's what you're going to see.
Speaker 2:I won't look at it, though. So I took Faith and her godmother, who is a doctor, and we go in, and what they do is each body shows a different part, like the cardiovascular system will be removed from that human that's been preserved.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then you get to learn all about. It's very scientific. You learn all about the cardiovascular system, because it's broken down and it's taken out of the preserved body and so, needless to say, then you have the like pituitary glands and then you have the endocrinology area and, like, every area of the body is represented literally. You see the bones and you see everything else. Right, so faith is little more walking around. And she sees a male penis and I wasn't expecting it. And so she looks at me and she's like mom, mom, and she's pointing what, what, she's signing what, what, what. And I was like, yeah, let's get your godmother because I'm not right, so right, we.
Speaker 2:We ask her, and and she goes to her godmother, who is a renowned doctor, and says you know what's that, what's that? And she goes oh, that's how boys pee, that's called a penis. And so she looks and she's like huh, and then there's a crowd of people and she's looking and she looks over and she goes. I guess now, when faith gets excited, she gets a little loud. She had hearing aids at the time, so she spoke a little louder and she was like I get it. And we were like what do you get? And she goes.
Speaker 2:I think I know what it's for and I'm like, oh, please, please, please, please, no and she goes well, women, girls, we go, go, go all day long, we go and we never take a break. We go, we go, we go, we work, we mom, we cook, we clean, we take care of kids. We go, go, go. Right, men are lazy and men don't do anything but sit on their butt, watch sports, watch women and do nothing. So God decided that a man needs to stand up and do something at some point. So that's why he has to stand up to pee, because the only time women get a break from standing is when they go to the bathroom. So God made it where women sit, to go to the bathroom, so women can have a break. Men never stand up and do anything they're supposed to do, so God made them have to stand up to pee. And she's like five and I'm thinking I just gave birth to Einstein reincarnated.
Speaker 1:Honestly, I love how her, I truly do love how her mind works, because, I mean, she doesn't mess around, she doesn't mince words, and you know it's a funny story. But you know what saddens me, what really caught me, is that at that young age, the men she was exposed to in her life gave her that impression of men in general, because, you and I know, not all men like that, that's not all men stereotype any anybody, but the fact that the men in her life gave her that impression that all they do is sit around, they're lazy and they watch women and sports.
Speaker 1:That's sad.
Speaker 2:It is sad, it is sad.
Speaker 1:That's sad. And that's one kid. Imagine all the. I mean I don't think we realize how we're impressing children and what's going on in their brains and what they're deducing based on our behaviors and actions. But God love that kid for speaking her mind and she stands by it. And we were talking before we came on.
Speaker 1:You can't, you cannot dispute anything, she says I mean she always is like dead on has a point totally justified. There's no argument. I love it though. I love her ability to speak her truth, and we all need to learn from that.
Speaker 2:Yes, she is, she's hilarious, she's a little seriously. All right, so let's see if we can get through a couple more. I discovered a family secret that shattered my understanding of my own childhood. Instead of support, my parents began to gaslight me even further, insisting that I imagined it and it was never true. I felt like I was losing my mind. I was trapped in a web of lies. My parents put me in an institution because they told everyone that I made this whole thing up the evidence. I had contradicted that, but nobody would look at it. The betrayal cut deep and I was left feeling utterly alone, and I was institutionalized for months because nobody would let me speak you're looking at me because you know that that's it's heartbreaking, that's heartbreaking, that's heartbreaking.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's so you know, and I'm sorry, but how ridiculous is it? The people at the at the mental institution, that they're not even listening, they're not even taking into consideration that it's the parent and a lot of facilities do that. They don not even listening. They're not even taking into consideration that it's the parents and a lot of facilities do that. They don't take into consideration it's the parents. They automatically listen to the parents and take them at full value and instead hurts us even further. Oh, no, no, no, you can't cry, you cannot cry well, this one hits pretty close to home for me I know whoever's listening.
Speaker 1:Um, my parents did the same thing to me and, yeah, there was nobody to save me and and the set that. I think the worst part is and I share the story in my second book, choking on shame if you're interested in reading about my experience but, um, the sad thing is, is that the staff at that we'll call it a hospital, um, I mean even the psychiatrists everybody evaluate. They. They're like there's nothing, like we're not even putting you on medication, there's not, there's no reason you're here. But unless my mother signed me out, I had to stay there and it was just sad that everybody could see that I didn't need to be there. And yet I was and I had no choice but to stay. And I think the worst part, and one of the chapters of that book that really is hard for me, is when the day I was released because the insurance ran out and my cheap ass stepfather he could afford all this crap, but God forbid he spend a penny on me. You know it wasn't even a happy thing. You know it was one of those moments like you watch these moments when, like, somebody is dying and their organs are being, you know, donated and there's like the what do they call that? The honor walk? Yeah, it was a similar situation where everybody was just standing outside the rooms and by the elevators. You know so sad to see me go and I call me crazy, but I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to leave because they treated me good there. They thought I was smart, they thought I was funny. They let me be me and there was nothing wrong with me there, yeah, so yeah, sorry, it takes a lot for me to break down like this, but that one, you know it's. It's interesting that since I never thought anybody like anybody, except the few people who knew would ever know that that had happened to me, because there's so much shame in in having to admit something like that, so I never talked about it and I I debated whether to put it in the book. But since I have, I'm actually like literally probably the most shocked of anything anybody's.
Speaker 1:I have had people tell me that they've been put in suitcases and left in a suitcase, zippered and locked for days. I've had people tell me they were chained and locked in dark rooms. I've had people tell me horrific things and knowing what happened to you, but gosh darn, I never thought anybody else's parents would do it. Like, is this a thing? But let me tell you, whoever this listener is, my parents did that to me too. They put me in a mental institution and now they still. They still to this day. Oh well, she's crazy. Remember when we had to? We had to lock her up. Yeah, they had to lock me up because they strangled me and threw me downstairs and I refused to go back to the house. But I have met other people. I have had a few other people message me and share with me that their parents also did that. What a disgusting thing to do.
Speaker 1:So, yes, that is why I'm crying. I'm crying for all of us, because this is just such a. I mean the lengths that they will go to prove that nothing's wrong with them. They're perfectly wonderful and you know, they can delude the cops, they can delude child services, they can delude everyone in these institutions. They don't have a choice. They will take your insurance and take your money and lock your ass up, even if you don't need to be there and they don't listen. It just stars't need to be there and they don't listen. It just stars you for life yeah, they don't listen.
Speaker 2:They care about what the parents say because they're the policy holder. When you're a minor and you have no say in it because you're underage, you can't. You can't fight your way out and yeah, I see what you say. Do you want to go home, really, when you have that opportunity? But, yeah, it was a bad thing.
Speaker 1:It was awful, I didn't want to go home. Really, when you have that opportunity, but yeah, it was a bad thing, it was awful, I didn't want to be there but yeah, when it came back down to me actually leaving, I'm like, but I don't want to. I mean, I remember, like going down when the elevator, when security took me down to the main floor and the elevator opened, my mother was there and I mean the look on her face, I mean she just glared at me with just disdain and contempt and she didn't even say anything. She didn't even wait for me to get off the elevator, she just turned and started walking out the door to the parking lot. And I just remember looking at the security guard like basically pleading with my eyes like, take me back up, take me back to the what was it?
Speaker 1:The third floor, the fourth floor, whatever floor, take me back up there, I'll stay, I'll volunteer to stay here. It's, it's just so horrific when, when, when you're willing to stay in a mental institution versus wanting to be, but, like you said from the first question, when you don't feel safe mentally, physically, whatever, I mean that's the worst feeling in the world, when that's supposed to be your safe place, and that's supposed to be your mother, is the one person above all, even above your father, who is supposed to love you, no matter what Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's awful it is. You no matter what, right? Yeah, it's awful it is. And to think that they've made all this up, I mean, and they said that they insisted he imagined it and he didn't have all this proof. He doesn't say what it was and it doesn't matter what it was the point is.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter, right it?
Speaker 2:doesn't, it doesn't matter. It's the fact that, like they were afraid that he was going to bring it.
Speaker 1:But, honestly, if somebody came to you, and said, oh my God, I had to admit my kid to a mental institution. And I'm sure they say it with all the sadness and bull crap. But I mean, you would believe any one of us, me included, I would think, oh my God, you know, this poor kid must have some serious, you know, mental issues. Glad they're somewhere where they're getting help, but God, this poor mother and what they've probably had to endure, and anybody would think that. So that is like phenomenal proof and support and evidence for their argument. And then here's, you know, like this girl, here's me, coming out saying but I'm not crazy, I'm not crazy, yeah, but I'm not exactly running around or I didn't, before the book, tell people, oh yeah, I did a stint in the, in the mental clink, you know, because people would think you are nuts, but I am here to tell you some of us aren't.
Speaker 1:There were people in there that were very you know. There was the kid, I called him the rocker. There was the boy that was rocking and silent, always in the corner rocking, and there was the girl. I honestly didn't remember what was wrong, but she was just. She was mute but just always very physically aggressive and just ate. I don't know what was going on and you know there were other kids that you know had had just done something awful and you know, like my roommate and I'll leave the details to the book. But yeah, some people need help, but some of us are just being punished and it's an awful way to punish somebody. You know, I don't even know what else to say. I just it's just shocking to hear yet another person say that their parents did that to them, and shame on these parents that think that that's okay.
Speaker 2:I was the emotional caretaker in my family, always listening to my parents' problems while mine went ignored. I felt responsible for all of their happiness and carrying the weight of their emotions on my shoulders. It was suffocating to see them thrive on my empathy, leaving me drained and empty.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what they do, though that reminds me of my ex that's usually a covert narcissist that they love people's pity. I always said my ex thrived on people's pity. He wanted people to feel bad for him and to give him encouragement and praise him, and that's what it came down to. He was just baiting them into fulfilling his ego. And I did it for a while because I'm like, oh no, you're great and everything. You know and you'll get there and you know, trying to be the nice, encouraging, you know person that I try to be to people that I love and others. But yeah, some people just use it and if you don't give it to them, then they get angry and nasty and you know, like you've done some great offense to them.
Speaker 2:then they get angry and nasty and you know like you've done some great offense. All right, let's see. Every night I would hear my parents argue. Their voices were rising until they just ended up in nothing but a shouting match. I hid under my blankets with tears streaming down my face. I wish I could scream back at the injustice of it all. When I finally mustered the courage to tell my mother how her words hurt, she laughed in my face and said you're just being dramatic. I learned that my pain was nothing but invisible and I was nothing but a silent scream in a chaotic world of hell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Did your parents fight? I mean in the 10,000 square foot house, could you hear them fight?
Speaker 2:He was never around her.
Speaker 2:Like he tried really hard never to be there. When she was there He'd always talk down to her Like she was an idiot and they really didn't argue. He would just say very cunning things and there were plenty of times I felt bad for her. But you know she would. She would get up and leave and go to see him, go see her son husband, excuse me and there would be times where he would say, oh, I need your help with something. And then she would go and do something else and not be there for him.
Speaker 1:God bless you oh oh so, thank you.
Speaker 2:So it was. Um, I never saw them hold hands, I never saw them kiss, I never heard I love you. Um, there was no, uh, physical intimacy between them. I would always hear how, like he would tell me I've never seen your mother naked. Thanks, I've got my whole life together. Um that they're like. He always would say how affectionate he is and how he's a hopeless romantic and yada, yada. But it was like ant africa and arca and switzerland in their room. How much space was between them in their bed, never came near one another. Um, you know, I mean, it was just they really were roommates. They were, that's all I would.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's more roommates than anything but yeah, I was curious about that because I I mean, I heard it was sort of the same thing in our house. Of course, the house I grew up in with them was very small, it wasn't the house they have now, but I mean, he was the king from day one. He decided what was and how it was going to be, and if you didn't play along which my mother always did, but it was the same thing To the last time I ever had communication with them, you know, years ago, he was always cutting her down, the same as he would cut me down under his breath, you know as he could. But yeah, it just seems strange how that, I mean you can almost tell sometimes, like some are very touchy, feely and flirty and all that. And then there's others that you can tell, like you can see that, because I don't remember ever seeing any handholding or hearing I love yous.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting and I think I mentioned it last time that you know they say that these love languages, the way you receive love and give love, usually testify to what you weren't getting when you were a child, and my God, I don't. I didn't get hugs and kisses and I, you know, I love yous and whatever. And so it's funny that now, as an adult, I am very affectionate with the people I love and like even my husband now. It's funny because he he's a baby boomer and it's like no PDA, nothing. And I'm like, oh no, dude, if you're gonna be, we're holding hands, you're going to kiss me in public, we are going to say I love you like 20 times a day and it's just my thing and it makes me feel good to give it and receive it. But yeah, in our house we never had that, but I did. I mean, you could sense the tension.
Speaker 1:But I think the interesting thing is even and maybe you can relate to this even without hearing like actual fighting man sometimes, like with my stepfather especially, there were times I used to have a housekeeping service and I I would go there. I would never just send my girls there. You know I had eight girls that worked for me. I would always go with them because I I just like almost as like a protective barrier Cause like I've dealt with this my whole life. I don't want to submit you to this crap, but my God, sometimes he doesn't have to say anything, just his presence. And I even had one of the girls I work with here's this I think their house is maybe 6,000, 7,000 square foot, something like that.
Speaker 1:He wasn't even on the same level we were and it's dead quiet. It's just us cleaning away and my girl that works for me looks over. She goes, she goes. I'm sorry if this offends you, but she says I swear to god your stepfather. He's not even on this floor of the house and I can feel the tension of his presence, like this negative energy, like overpowering the air. She's like I feel, like I can't even breathe, like I'm suffocated. I said welcome to my life my whole effing life.
Speaker 1:The thought of him suffocates me. It's a terrible thing when they have that effect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, people who've gone into my farm and egg donors say it's a terrible thing when they have that effect. Yeah, people who have gone into my farm and egg donors say it's like a soul-sucking museum. You go in there, you feel the tension, you feel the hostility. You know they had the sweetest maids and I just I loved her and they call her a maid and I called her the housekeeper, but whatever and um, they accused her of stealing some change out of the master bedroom closet, like change. So you're literally like what? Like you're looking the house and there's so much stuff everywhere and you're thinking if they're gonna do something, they're not gonna go for the change.
Speaker 2:Maybe there's 20 different, like Rolexes and you know, yeah, exactly you know the very expensive watches, the, you know volava and all those, all those out there, the tassos, all of those are in there. But so he was determined to catch them. And at first he accused faith of stealing the change. And and I'm like, are you kidding? She's not gonna take your damn change. And of course, faith is like you need all the common sense you can get. So, yeah, just that's faith.
Speaker 2:So they went and they got these like little, tiny, inconspicuous nanny cams and put them in the closet to try and catch them stealing quarters and dimes and whatever. And then they also had this big jar of dollar bills that they had in there and because my brother is a server, he would come over and she'd give him dollar bills, I guess, for whatever to help him. And so they ended up finding out that he had gone in there and taken some of the dollars and changed them out and we were blamed. First it was the, the maid, and then we were blamed. But we're not on the tape, we're not on the film, we don't even go in there, like ever.
Speaker 2:And I've always taught faith. And I was the same way like if I was taking their laundry and I would knock on the door and say, hey, can I come in and bring your laundry? Right, I would never just walk into their room ever, right. And it was, you know, like in in the narc narc book. You'll see where my egg donor said, oh, I've set traps, you know she's gonna steal or whatever, right I? I was just like, I knock on the door before I even come in. You know why am I gonna go in there and take coins like coins Right.
Speaker 1:And you know what, though, even if it was faith, what was she going to? It's change, right, Maybe she needed it to put in a gumball machine or something if they still even have those, I don't even know but like it's change. But that's a narcissistic thing, and you have this experience obviously, and I have had it too. And you have this experience obviously, and I have had it too. You know, at one point my mother accused she's like I don't know if it was you or one of your girls, but you're not allowed to clean our bedroom and our master bathroom anymore because a necklace was stolen. And I'm like why would anyone steal a necklace from you Again, like they have all this stuff, why would they steal it? And plus, and I'm just gonna say it, my mother, believe it or not, despite her posh life, does not like wearing jewelry. Like rarely will you see her wearing anything but her wedding ring. Like not even stud earrings, no net. So like, like I've been with her shopping she buys costume. She literally like, if she buys a blouse, she has to buy some costume jewelry necklace and earrings to go with it, so that when she goes out she can look like she's hoity toity. But at home. That is not so. Whatever necklace she thinks was lost, I'm thinking is some piece of costume jewelry that was probably on sale at Kohl's for like five bucks. Yeah, like really, and I'm pretty sure my girls are not that hard up.
Speaker 1:I mean, background checked everything, so they also put up cameras after that and we weren't allowed in the bedroom, never caught anything, nothing. Oh, and, by the way, the necklace was found. Nobody stole anything. We of course, knew that. But again, this is like the mental hospital thing when they say, oh, they're telling people we had to put cameras up because so-and-so is stealing. Again, how are you, as somebody, listening to this information? Wow, somebody had to go through the effort of putting up security cameras in their house. This must be bad. That person must be guilty, because no normal, reasonable thinking human being would go to that extent and that expense unless there was good reason. But it's just the same as like right now they have in that house.
Speaker 1:My grandma lives there now. My grandma sometimes doesn't even answer my calls because they have cameras up and they're monitoring her. They're monitoring her and our conversations, where she'll whisper or she'll start talking in Spanish because my stepfather does not speak Spanish, my mother kind of a little bit, but fortunately my grandma and great grandma. I'm not fluent, fluent, but I understand enough of it that I get you know. So it's funny because she'll be in English and then she'll just start, you know, and I'm like, okay, I know what's good, but I know what's going on. Or I'll just say, are we being listened to and we have some code words.
Speaker 1:But it's just sad, just like when they tell people oh yeah, we don't invite Dana because we don't allow her in our house. It's the verbiage If somebody's not allowed in your house, they must have done something awful. Something awful. I don't want to go to that house anyway, I swear to God. But yeah, it's just all sad that the impressions they give people by their actions but their actions are so outrageous that you have to believe it if you don't know the truth, because you're like nobody would normally do that.
Speaker 1:Right, and they're your parents and when you're little, and they're your parents you expect them to, and who does this crap?
Speaker 1:And I'm sorry and I'm going to defend if anyone is a housekeeper or a cleaning lady of any sort, in defense of all of you, because I did it. For 13 years I ran a housekeeping business. I get so tired of the the thievery cliche. The thievery cliche, that's ridiculous. Housekeepers are not all thieves. Cleaning ladies are not going through your drawer. Some might be, but the good ones of us never went through your crap. We know all your secrets. We know you're screwing the 18-year-old that's staying with you and we know that you're hiding the marijuana back there and whatever. But you know mom's the word, do, word, do what you gotta do, but we're not stealing your shit, trust me. We are actually more concerned about our dna, our hair and our fingerprints being on crap, in case you do something stupid and our dna shows up on it. Bam, that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2:Drop the mic drop the mic, huh. So we got through four pages. I am so yay, I know we're doing it, we're getting through them, absolutely, absolutely so keep sending them in, keep sending them in yes, yes, yes, keep sending them in and nothing surprises me anymore. But some of the the stories that we get, it's just like I get it to the point where I just you know, I do reach up and I thank every single person.
Speaker 2:I do send a thank you to everybody who writes into me and I think on behalf of both of us, and then I sometimes I write back and I'm like you know I just wanted to see if you were better or how's your day you know, and I do, especially for the one who didn't successfully commit suicide, and we talked about that one for a while and it's the fact that I let them know they're not forgotten, they are heard and they're listened to and they're valued and their voice matters and we're speaking on their behalf. But you read these and you hear these and it's like I get it. I get it and I know your spouse might not get it, and I know your spouse might not get it I know your co-workers may not get it, um, and it sucks.
Speaker 2:It does it sucks, but at the end of the day, you are such a better person because you aren't them. And they still have to get up and look in the mirror and they're still them. So you know, it's, it's, but the unity of the black sheep community is so tight. It really is Because we totally understand. You know, I had someone ask me if your parents called you and told you they needed like a kidney or a lung, you know, or part of your liver, would you give it to them? Would you? Would you?
Speaker 1:help them. I'll be honest with you my stepfather I would not. My mother I probably would, despite my feelings about her. I probably would. But my stepfather and it's I. I don't wish anyone ill, I don't want anyone to die, but there are just some people. He's really one of the only ones, but yeah, I'm, I'm good, I mean there, and it's not even.
Speaker 1:You know, people always talk to me about forgiveness and stuff and just real quick to tag onto what you just said, I, I know you feel the same way. I don't want anyone to ever know I I'm kind of glad some people don't get it, because I don't want anyone to ever get it. You shouldn't have to get it Right. But you know we do stick together and you know I don't want anyone to ever feel like you know, shameful, that you're not at the place where you can forgive. Because people talk to me about forgiveness all the time and I get biblical comments and, yes, I believe in God and all that. But I also believe in the choice. Healing is a choice, forgiveness is a choice. Even holding on to victimhood is a choice. We are all at different places and you know how I feel about judgment, but I have forgiven myself. I am at a place in my healing where I can hold love for my mother out of respect for the fact that she's my mother and gave me life, and I am somehow alive and have survived it all and thriving now. But yeah, my stepfather, I'll keep my kidney. I'm good, yeah, but that's what I love about this community.
Speaker 1:I think people that understand exile and banishment and abandonment and rejection we are some of the most accepting and loving and kindhearted people, and that's why we come together and are able to unite in this way.
Speaker 1:So we say it a million times over, but we'll say it again we want to thank everybody who's listened to even a minute of anything that we've had to say or read one word of anything we've ever written, and we just really wish we could hug every single one of you. But we love you. Thank you for listening, thank you for continuing to write in. Please continue to, because even though we work really hard to get through as many pages as we can, we love adding pages and knowing that there's things like today. I would have never imagined that somebody would give their child, give their other children, gifts when it was the one child's birthday, like there are some things or, like you know, I had no idea that there was yet another person out there that experienced something that you know. So you never know until you share and just know that again, there's no judgment, it's a safe space and we love every one of you and thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you so much, and we will be back soon.
