A Contagious Smile Podcast
A Contagious Smile is a powerful platform dedicated to uplifting and empowering special needs families and survivors of domestic violence. Through heartfelt stories, we shine a light on the journeys of extraordinary individuals who have overcome unimaginable challenges. Their triumphs serve as a testament to resilience and strength, inspiring others to rediscover their own inner light. Each episode features candid interviews with survivors, advocates, and experts who provide valuable resources and insights to support those on their own paths to healing and empowerment. Join us as we celebrate the power of resilience, the beauty of shared stories, and the unstoppable spirit of those who turn adversity into hope. Let us guide you in rekindling your spirit, because every smile tells a story of courage and transformation.
A Contagious Smile Podcast
A Contagious Smile: Ken Kunkin's Journey of Resilience After Spinal Cord Injury
The moment Ken Kunkin made that fateful tackle during a Cornell University football game in 1970, his life's trajectory was forever altered. Left a quadriplegic with minimal movement in just his left arm, Ken faced a medical establishment that offered little hope—suggesting his future might consist of selling magazine subscriptions by telephone. But this podcast conversation reveals how profoundly they underestimated his determination.
Ken's journey unfolds like a masterclass in resilience. With unwavering family support who promised to serve as his "arms and legs," he became the first quadriplegic to graduate from Cornell University—navigating a campus without a single ramp or curb cut. Against all odds, he earned three Ivy League degrees, only to face another crushing reality: despite sending over 200 resumes, no one would hire him. The employment discrimination he encountered eventually gave way to opportunity when Dr. Henry Viscardi Jr. recognized his potential, launching Ken into a remarkable 40-year career as an Assistant District Attorney.
What makes this conversation particularly captivating is how Ken’s personal and professional journeys intertwine. His love story with Anna, who began as his personal care attendant and eventually proposed to him, reminds us of life’s unexpected beautiful turns. Together, they defied medical improbabilities by becoming parents to triplet sons through in vitro fertilization, creating the family that continues to inspire Ken’s advocacy work.
Throughout our discussion, Ken articulates the transformative impact of the Americans with Disabilities Act while highlighting how much work remains in creating genuinely inclusive spaces. His passionate defense of diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts comes from lived experience—from being unable to fit through courtroom doors as a newly minted prosecutor to having the Nassau County DA's office create an annual award in his name.
Listen to this remarkable story of a man who, when told something was impossible, simply reframed it as "I'm possible." Ken's memoir, "I Dreamt of Things That Never Were," and his continued advocacy remind us that limitations are often more about perception than reality. His message will leave you questioning what seemingly impossible dreams you might pursue with just a bit more determination.
Good afternoon and welcome to a very special episode of A Contagious Smile. We have such an inspiration, such a story of resilience. A gentleman, to say the least, Ken, is with us today. It is my distinct pleasure and honor to have this esteemed guest. I have been looking forward to this for a very long time. He has a story that will absolutely grab at you. He suffered a life-altering spinal cord injury during a college football game at Cornell University back in 1970. He faced incredible challenges. Yet he's here today. He has emerged with adversity, he has done his memoir, he has accomplished so many things. He has multiple degrees and he has dedicated his life to helping public service. He's even been an assistant district attorney in Nassau County. And all of you I'm tongue tied, which never happens. I want to thank you so very much for being here today and giving us your time. I know it's valuable. So thank you, sir.
Speaker 2:Thank you, victoria, and thank you for having me as your guest and giving me the opportunity to share my story.
Speaker 1:Well, I am just going to let you jump in. You tell me your story. You have been recognized for so many contributions that you have done throughout your entire life and you have been given rightfully so so many amazing awards. But can we kind of start back at Cornell and kind of give the history a little bit and kind of move forward so people understand exactly what happened?
Speaker 2:Sure Well, in 1970, I was 20 years old, it was early in my junior year at Cornell University. I was playing on their lightweight football team. At the time it was also called 150-pound football, now it's called sprint football and we were playing in a game against Columbia University. And during the game I made a tackle on a kickoff and when I tackled the ball carrier I broke my neck and severely damaged my spinal cord. As a result, I am almost totally paralyzed. I have just a little bit of movement in my left arm Excuse me and nothing on the right side of my body. So I'm considered a quadriplegic and I need help with virtually all aspects of daily living. So, following my injury, I spent the next nine months and 20 days in various hospitals and rehabilitation centers.
Speaker 1:What was that like for you, going through all of that rehab and surgeries and hospitalizations?
Speaker 2:Well, it was brutal, I mean it was incredibly depressing. Hospitalizations Well it was brutal, I mean it was incredibly depressing. And I found the medical professionals were reluctant to tell me much about my injury and my disability. So while I knew that I had broken my neck, I didn't know much about spinal cord injuries. So I really didn't know for quite a while why I was not able to move. And while I was undergoing rehabilitation, I found that the best they seemed to think I would ever be able to do would be to someday sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:And while at that time I couldn't even dial a telephone at that time this was the age of rotary telephones, not even touch tone phones and I was not able to take notes or write anything and I was worried I may not even be able to do that. So it was incredibly frustrating, incredibly depressing, and at the time one of my Aunt Lorraine's friends, a person by the name of Albert Meglin, visited me in a rehab facility and suggested to me that we write a book about what I was going through Because, as he said, not many people knew much about spinal cord injuries back then or what rehabilitation was like, and he thought it could be helpful and informative to a lot of people and maybe even help me deal with my depression.
Speaker 1:Did it help.
Speaker 2:Now this was about 25 years before Christopher Reeve was injured, so obviously after his injury people learned a lot more about spinal cord injuries, but before that the public didn't really know much about it.
Speaker 1:Right, right Did writing help you.
Speaker 2:You know it was. It was, I guess, good to get down my feelings on paper, but it took a long time. You know, initially we got together once a week and wrote a little bit, and then when I got out of the rehab center I only saw him sporadically, so I would try myself to type a little bit on an IBM Selectric typewriter with some special braces and splints that I had. Again, this was well before laptop computers. So it was really difficult for me to put my story down on paper and it actually took me close to 50 years before I actually completed it.
Speaker 1:And your book, which is I dreamt of things that never were, did it? You found it therapeutic as you continued the journey, going on with your writing.
Speaker 2:You know I work both ways. In some ways it was just to remind me of my journey and how far I've come. But in some ways it was just to remind me of my journey and how far I've come, but in other ways it was very painful to relive some of the most difficult, depressing days of my life and to dwell on it and go into detail about it. I mean, there are a lot of those times that I would have preferred not to have thought about again, but I thought it important to get it down on paper.
Speaker 1:Sure sure. What was your strength? Where did you find your strength to help you get through those incredibly challenging times?
Speaker 2:Well, I was very fortunate that my family every step of the way. Excuse me, I'm having a little problems with my voice at the moment.
Speaker 1:No, you take your time.
Speaker 2:Can you make another turn?
Speaker 1:Excuse me, no, you're fine, you take your time.
Speaker 2:I was very fortunate that my family was very supportive, helped me every step of the way and basically assured me that they would act as my arms and legs to make sure I could do everything that I wanted to do in my life, and with their help and support I was able to go back to college, complete my education, actually go and work and eventually get married and become the father of some incredible sons. I have three beautiful sons you have triplets.
Speaker 2:I have triplets. They're now 20 years old and through the inspiration that I got from seeing them and from the help of my incredible wife, as well as the rest of my family, I received a lot of encouragement to go on and do what I was doing.
Speaker 1:Yes, and you've done so much. And before we started recording, I had the honor of meeting your wife, anna, for just a split second. She seems amazing. She just seems so amazing. And I want to take a moment because I am not only I'm special needs, but I'm also a mom to a beautiful young lady who's special needs, and I know how it is to be a caregiver. So hats off to her, because it's a big thing and you can tell she does it with love.
Speaker 2:Thank you Absolutely, and I was so fortunate to have met Anna and we got married actually way back in 2003. So we're married more than 21 years now.
Speaker 1:What's the secret?
Speaker 2:When we got married, anna indicated that she wanted to have my baby Now. At this time that really seemed impossible. I had been paralyzed for more than 30 years at that time and I was already in my 50s. But we researched various options, including in vitro fertilization, and found it still may be possible for me to father a child. So we pursued it and, as luck and fate would have it, anna became pregnant with triplets.
Speaker 1:You didn't just give her one baby, you gave her three.
Speaker 2:Right, and I was actually present in the delivery room when I gave birth to my three sons.
Speaker 1:Can you tell us a little bit about how y'all met and your story, because it seems so Sure.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I need help in all of my activities of daily living.
Speaker 2:So what I usually do is I put an ad in the newspaper to be able to meet and then hire a personal care attendant, and over the years I've had some females, you know, respond to the ad and do the job.
Speaker 2:But it's very difficult for a female because they need to be able to lift me from the bed to the wheelchair. So I found females need to be not only strong but tall to be able to reach over the wheelchair to lift me. And I found after a while that I received a lot of positive responses by putting an ad in the Polish newspaper that's published here in America. So I put an ad in the Polish Daily News and, to my good fortune, anna happened to be visiting the United States at the time, saw the ad, responded and even though she had never done this kind of work before, she seemed like the perfect candidate and I was fortunate to have made the right decision to have hired Anna. And the more we got together and got to know each other, our relationship grew and progressed. Ana had actually been here in America to improve her skills speaking English and she felt working with me may help her improve her English speaking skills. So it kind of worked out well for both of us.
Speaker 1:Sure, and she was absolutely beautiful, I'm sure, absolutely Stunning now, I'm sure.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Stunning. Now she still is Absolutely stunning, absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 1:So you dated, kind of sort of, and then you popped the question how long after meeting her did you ask her?
Speaker 2:Well, that's an interesting story. Well, that's an interesting story If you know a little bit more. It was actually Anna proposed to me.
Speaker 1:What.
Speaker 2:Yeah, incredible stopped for a brief period of time and Ana started seeing another individual and we missed each other and decided we worked real well together and I was fortunate. Ana came back and the more we got to know each other and spend time with each other, we knew we were right for each other. But I thought I would never get married. I thought it may not be fair to the woman to be married to somebody with my limitations, but Anna was very well aware what they was and she helped take care of me for quite a period of time. So we met in 1969. No, 1969. No, no. Ada just said no. I thought we met in 1969. Well, actually the end of 1968, we met and no, I'm sorry, 1999, not 69. 1999. Ada was born in 69. We met in 1999. And we got engaged in 2001. So we met in 1999, got engaged in 2001. So by then we knew each other really, really well.
Speaker 1:Of course, absolutely. Wow, she sounds like such an inspiration for you she really is.
Speaker 2:She really is. She encourages me and inspires me every day with all that she does yes, and she sounds like such a sweet person she's the best oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. I love that. All right, so after this horrific injury, your specific mind, your mindset shift and now you help other people with disabilities in so many ways, you help them do so many things. Can you kind of like tell me a little bit about what you're doing and how you're helping other people like you and I that are going through challenges?
Speaker 2:Sure. Well, I indicated, I went back to school following my injury and while I completed my education in industrial engineering, which I was studying at the time, I got hurt. Following my graduation, while I was still at school, I took an elective in psychology and my psychology professor, a person by the name of Dr James Moss, took an interest in me and encouraged me to pursue a career in counseling. And through his encouragement, following my graduation I stayed at Cornell and earned a master's degree in counseling and student personnel administration. And then, to increase my counseling credentials, I went to Columbia University where I earned my second graduate degree. This one was a degree in psychological counseling and rehabilitation. And now that I had two degrees from Cornell, one from Columbia, three prestigious Ivy League degrees, two master's degrees, I thought I shouldn't have too much difficulty securing employment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wouldn't think so.
Speaker 2:To my dismay, no one would hire me. This was in the mid 1970s. I looked for a job for a year. I sent out more than 200 resumes and I was even turned down when I off to volunteer my services, because back then it seemed like everyone felt I was just too disabled to work, felt I was just too disabled to work and I was fortunate that I met an individual by the name of Dr Hemi Viscardi Jr here on Long Island, new York, who hired me to work as vocational rehabilitation counselor to help other individuals who had severe disabilities. So he hired me to work at a company he started called Abilities Incorporated, which is part of what's now called the Viscardi Center, and through his help and encouragement I went to work as a vocational rehabilitation counselor and I absolutely loved the work, loved the facility and loved what everybody was doing there. So I was really fortunate to be in contact with him and to be hired by him.
Speaker 2:So during my work there, my responsibilities kept expanding. My responsibilities kept expanding and one of my duties was to speak at conferences before groups and organizations concerning affirmative action and non-discrimination for people with disabilities, and often after my talks I would be asked questions and while I would certainly do my best to answer those questions. I was always careful to caution the questioners. They should really consult with a lawyer about their concerns. And I guess it wasn't long before I started to think you know, there's no reason why I couldn't become that lawyer. So I actually left my job and went to Hofstra University School of Law and pursued a career in law.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's amazing. That's amazing. So what is life like for Ken now? What do you do now? So, what is life like for Ken now?
Speaker 2:What do you do now? Well, you know I worked, following law school, as a Nassau County Assistant District Attorney. Oh, I was a prosecutor and I loved that job. But while I was doing that, I had also been asked to be a member of the Viscardi Center's Board of Directors, where I previously worked, and I was so pleased that, you know, they invited me to be on their Board of Directors and to continue advocating for people with disabilities. And, you know, advocate for people with disabilities and try, and, you know, show employers that people with disabilities can not only work but work well and become some of the best employees and most loyal employees that an employer can ever hope to find. So I worked for the district attorney's office for more than 40 years.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:But I'm now fully retired and still active in the Viscardi Center on their board of directors.
Speaker 1:Good for you. Good for you. Why do you think so many companies I mean there's countless companies, because I see it all the time too that are so hesitant in opening up and giving opportunities to people who have challenges?
Speaker 2:You know, I think for one they're afraid of the unknown. A lot of these individuals have never spent time, spent much time with people with disabilities, and they're afraid of what they see physically about a person, that they just assume a person cannot do certain things that they feel are important for the job. And it's those assumptions that are so limited. Because somebody has a disability, whether it be physical or intellectual, doesn't mean that they're totally disabled. There's usually an awful lot of ability in those people and in fact that was one of the reasons why Dr Viscardi Jr named the company he started, abilities Incorporated, because, even though it catered to people with disabilities, he wanted to emphasize the abilities that people have.
Speaker 1:That's such a fantastic name. I love that. That's fantastic. What can we do to open their eyes, to let them see that we are worth taking that chance on, because we are the most loyal, we understand and we'll work harder than most people do.
Speaker 2:You know, it's getting more and more frustrating now that there are some people that seem to think diversity, equity and inclusion is not a good thing.
Speaker 2:Right, and I'm here to say DEI, diversity, equity, inclusion is an incredibly positive thing that helps so many people, so many people. And, I might add, at the district attorney's office, you know, when you leave the job, you go what they call an exit interview, where you tell the personnel director what you found best about the job, what you liked the most and what you thought could be improved. And I'm so happy and proud to say that on a number of occasions, a number of my fellow assistant district attorneys said that they found the best part of their job was meeting, working with and getting to know me. And the reason why I say that is because what they're actually referring to is meeting, getting to know and working with on a daily basis someone with a disability, because unless they grew up with somebody with a disability or had a close relative with a disability, they rarely came in contact with somebody on a daily basis who had a disability, and for many it was a revelation that for one, we're no different than anybody else.
Speaker 2:Two that we're hard workers and that it didn't mean additional work to them, and I felt so good to hear that. And in fact, I might add, two years ago the district attorney actually started an award in our office, called the Kenneth J Kunkin Award, that they give out to the outstanding assistant district attorney each year who best exemplifies the work ethic of the person in a wheelchair Right, the person that worked with them, that had a disability. That is who they chose to honor now, and it's the only annual award they give out.
Speaker 1:I love that I love that and you know we do fight so hard because you think about it. I mean our resilience. We are such fighters, we go through so much and that's why we take not one thing for granted, because you know, those moments are so amazing. What an honor. Congratulations for that. That is so well deserved and amazing. I've only known you for a little bit and I'm just like I can understand why that would be an option to provide to somebody on a yearly basis, because you're amazing and people don't take the time.
Speaker 1:There's so many judgmental people that just will look at you on the outside and amazing and immediately just judge you. Like people look at me and they're like, oh, you have scars everywhere and you don't have an arm and you don't have hearing, and you, you know all of this and it's just why are you so judgmental, right? But then the other day I was in Costco and Two Lanes Over was a beautiful couple signing and I have not signed in a long time because now I'm learning to do it one-handed, but I was fluent and so I signed Hi nice to meet you and we engaged in this beautiful communication between the two of us and I noticed people were starting to watch us and it's like, why are people so quick to just be so superficial, to judge the outside without trying to get to know who we are on the inside?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and you know what. What really helps is the more people interact with somebody with a disability, the more their attitudes change, and I can't say enough about the impact the Americans with Disabilities Act has had.
Speaker 2:That came about 1990 and started to be implemented in 1992 with its rules and regulations. I had the added misfortune of being injured 20 years before that act took place. So back then, before that act, you didn't see a lot of people with disabilities out in public because at least people in wheelchairs could not get around. You couldn't get up steps into buildings or up and down curbs to cross streets. And what a difference that act has made in so many people's lives.
Speaker 1:Yes, so give us a little insight, because as soon as we are finished, I'm going to go order your book. About the book what is it about? Tell us about the ins and outs of it. Give us a little inside scoop.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I felt like I'd been told for so many times, so many years, that there are things that I cannot do because of my disability, and I was determined to prove them wrong of my disability. And I was determined to prove them wrong. When I went back to Cornell, there was not one ramp or curb cut on the entire campus. My first day of classes I had to be either pulled up or bounced down close to 100 steps just to attend my first day. But I was determined to make it work and, through the help of personal care attendants, my family and fellow classmates, I became the first quadriplegic to graduate from Cornell University.
Speaker 2:I then became the first quadriplegic to earn a graduate degree at Cornell University. And you know, just to jump ahead, I had difficulty getting that job even after getting all those degrees. And I might add, even back then I was looking for a job to be a rehab counselor. Even people in the rehab community seemed hesitant to hire somebody with my disability and it's taken a while to show people how much people with disabilities can actually do. And you know, it was incredible.
Speaker 2:When I first started working at the Viscardi Center in 1977, I was named the Long Island Rehabilitation Association's Rehabilitant of the Year and it was a very wonderful honor that I was bestowed. But at the awards ceremony I received a standing ovation from about 250 rehab personnel who were really the same rehab personnel who a few months earlier were too hesitant to hire me to work for their own organizations. And I think a lot needs to be said about that, that there's so much people can do and sometimes you need to be the first to do something and not wait for somebody else to take the initiative and make the first move before you have enough courage and confidence in yourself to say it's just the right thing to do.
Speaker 1:Yes, you're just such a motivational speaker. You're amazing. It's amazing. I've moved mountains when I was like I'm going to tie my shoes, and I tie my shoe one handed, you know, and my husband laughs at me because I'll take a nail and a hook and a hammer and I'll hammer that into the wall and I'll hang a picture and he's just like you've got to be kidding and I'm like I'm going to do it. I'm not, you know, I've had two hands and now I only have one and I'm learning, but I'm going to do it and you have that mentality. That is what is so inspirational to me. That makes me want to do even more. And you just don't quit. How do you keep that such positive light about you? And I'm sure the beautiful hand on the side helps tremendously.
Speaker 2:It sure does, and so do my kids. But I might add that my extended family has helped me every step of the way. I mean, they basically assured me they'd act as my arms and legs to make sure I could do everything I wanted to do in life. And it got to the point where they were doing so much for me I thought I'd be letting them down and disappointing them if I didn't do everything I possibly could do with my life. But what's so frustrating is, despite obstacles, sometimes things are made even more difficult for no reason, and that's why I emphasize again what a difference the Americans with Disabilities Act has made.
Speaker 2:Just to tell you a little bit about my career in law, I was able to graduate law school in the standard three-year time period. I passed a very difficult New York State bar exam the first time that I took it. I began my work in the district attorney's office by participating in a very intensive four-week training program where they taught us all aspects of trial techniques from a prosecutor's perspective, and I was so proud to go to court my first day only to find I couldn't fit through the swinging doorways in the courtroom to get to the prosecutor's table.
Speaker 2:So those are obstacles that you have to ask yourself why were they ever obstacles?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And they were so easy to remove and change things to make it accessible for everyone.
Speaker 1:Yes, ken, let me ask you on the moments and we all have them where you just aren't at your highest peak, where you're kind of feeling like, oh, this is just frustrating and annoying. What kind of tips of advice especially from a man, because obviously I'm a female and so many times I get to work with men and they ask me but from a male perspective, what kind of inspiration or frustrational techniques do you use that that others can use?
Speaker 2:Well, one of them obviously is just looking at my family, my wife and my kids.
Speaker 2:Well, one of them, obviously, is just looking at my family, my wife and my kids.
Speaker 2:I see how wonderful they are, how they're working so hard to make their lives successful, productive, rewarding and to help others.
Speaker 2:You know all of them want to do their best to help others, and when I see that in them that inspires me to do more with my life, see that in them that inspires me to do more with my life. And when I think about the challenges out there, I also think about all the wonderful people that are out there that want to help. Sometimes they just don't know the best way of going about it, but I know most people are really good people that want to help and taking advantage of that is a wonderful position to be in, where you have the opportunity to now help others. And when I originally got my job as a rehab counselor, that was the first opportunity that I really had to help others. After years and years of being a recipient of so much help, now I was able to help others and pay back, you know, with thanks and the work that I was doing, and it's such a great feeling to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely Absolutely. What inspiration advice would you give to someone who's just starting out going through anything that's been a life altering challenge for them, whether it's? You know, I, when I hear the word impossible, I like to just change it. I'm possible because there's nothing we can't do. We just take a different journey. We take a different path, and you know what those less traveled are more beautiful Right, and you know what those less traveled are more beautiful right. So if you're seeing somebody for the first time that is just starting the rehab process, what words of advice do you have for them?
Speaker 2:Well, it's similar to what you just said. Just because it may seem impossible doesn't mean it is. I mean, it's only impossible until you actually do it. And not to listen to the naysayers. Don't listen to the people who tell you that you can't do something or it's just too difficult. What's important is how you feel about yourself and what you believe you can do, and it's so important to keep your spirits up and your self-esteem and your self-confidence up and to believe in yourself. Right, and you know, when you are faced with challenges, it's so important to take them head on. I believe it's important to participate in activities, not just sit back on the sidelines waiting for something to happen or waiting for something to be given to you. It's important for you to face challenges, handle them head on, participate in as many activities as you can and make something of your life.
Speaker 1:So now you're retired, good for you. What is retirement going to involve? So now you're retired.
Speaker 2:Good for you. What is retirement going to involve? Well, retirement right now is involving still advocating for people with disabilities. I am also involved on the Cornell University Council, where I've been proud and honored to accept being a member of that council. I'm serving on the Viscardi Center Board of Directors. I've been involved in being a guest on many different podcasts. Now I've been a guest on more than 60 podcasts where I want to share my story and advocate for people with disabilities and, in addition, I'm trying to be the best husband and father I could possibly be.
Speaker 1:Now, I know some amazing people who would love to have you on their podcast. Am I allowed to like send you their way as well?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's some fabulous people that would just love and be honored to have you Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Where can we find your book?
Speaker 2:Okay, well, they can go to my website, which is kenkunkincom, and that'll tell a number of different ways that they could get my book. I mean, the most obvious way is to go on Amazon, where it's listed. It's also listed on the Cornell University website, but if they go on my website, kenkunkencom, that will give additional ways as well.
Speaker 1:Well, I cannot thank you enough for your time today. I want to thank Anna she's amazing and just give her a virtual hug, because I know how important she is in this entire equation, and if there's ever anything that I can do to help when you are advocating, I would be honored to stand beside you and help you any way that I possibly can.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much and thank you for having me a guest on your podcast.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
