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A Contagious Smile Podcast
A Contagious Smile is a powerful platform dedicated to uplifting and empowering special needs families and survivors of domestic violence. Through heartfelt stories, we shine a light on the journeys of extraordinary individuals who have overcome unimaginable challenges. Their triumphs serve as a testament to resilience and strength, inspiring others to rediscover their own inner light. Each episode features candid interviews with survivors, advocates, and experts who provide valuable resources and insights to support those on their own paths to healing and empowerment. Join us as we celebrate the power of resilience, the beauty of shared stories, and the unstoppable spirit of those who turn adversity into hope. Let us guide you in rekindling your spirit, because every smile tells a story of courage and transformation.
A Contagious Smile Podcast
The Narcissist's Immunity: Why They Never Seem to Suffer TRIGGER WARNING
Well, hello everybody, victoria and Dana here. It's been a while, or maybe not a while for you guys, but it's been a while for us, because we've been busy doing things like surgeries, and you know what we do every day. I guess I say surgeries because I'm looking at my lovely sister from another mister who had another surgery.
Speaker 1:She does not look like how and she needs to stop talking about herself that way and putting that energy into the universe. But we are very happy to be back together, dynamic duo ready to answer. Hopefully we can answer some actual questions.
Speaker 2:Yes, excuse me, I'm piling up, I'm having to clear my throat because I had a breathing tube, I'm 48 hours post-op and so, yeah, I have all sorts of like tape and found out I have stitches under the tape and I have a device that looks like a pacemaker tape in my back. I'm just all sorts of wrapped up without a pretty well, I guess you could say red though, but whatever. Sorts of wrapped up without a pretty well, I guess you can say red though, but whatever. So, yeah, it's so much fun and they're like you can't turn, you can't twist, you can't bend, you can't bend over, you can't do this, you can't do that, and you're like what the hell do you want me to do?
Speaker 1:Like, what am I supposed to do? I know that's how I felt. I mean I did. I'm laughing because you know I always tell you I have no pain tolerance and I'm such a weenie baby Like if you pinch me or look at me the wrong way I'll cry. And I don't know how you do these surgeries without painkillers and you go through.
Speaker 1:You've had so many surgeries and here I had a stupid testosterone pellet stuck in my butt cheek last week by my hormone doctor because I'm going through that change and my God, god, it still hurts and that's all I can complain about. And they told me I can't do squats and lunges and like workout and stuff because the pill might pop out of my butt cheek. There's like tape holding it in place because they put a hole in my ass. So when does it dissolve? When do you? It steadily releases over three months so that I can go get a pellet put it in another part of my ass and my ass is going to be obliterated by the time I'm done with the freaking chain in a few years. But that's nothing compared to what you've been through. Don't come out looking like J-Lo. I can get cosmetic surgery, I suppose, if I want to be that vain. But no, I'm a baby. I hear you've had like your spine and your brain tapped into and I get a pellet in my ass.
Speaker 1:Electrocution yeah, don't throw that in to make me feel worse.
Speaker 2:Oh, I even have a little remote control which I've hid from Michael because I was like, don't even try to prank me and turn it off, because I'm warning you.
Speaker 1:What is the remote control for? To send the electrical impulses when you have pain? I'm getting them 24-7.
Speaker 2:But, like, if I find an activity is more strenuous and causes me more pain, I can turn the level up.
Speaker 2:And it will do more, and so I'm. And then when I get the app put in, when I get the permanent one put in, then I can like touch the phone and say go into bed, so bedtime would come on, and so if my arm doesn't stay elevated then it will increase what it does. And then like sitting at the desk, or like the first time when people take all sorts of crap for granted it was the first time I tried driving. Yesterday for the first time because I wasn't under any pain meds and like first time ever I was able to put my left arm and elbow on the door, like sit it on the door, rest. And I was just like it's Christmas because I put my arm on the door and and my husband was just looking at me and I'm like you don't understand what that's like to never be able to do it. And now I I can't. He's like but you can't turn to see oncoming traffic. This is my new thing today. I just I'm lifting a finger for all of those that need it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know what I? I think that's a really great story because I think we all do take so much for granted. Like here's me with a pellet in my ass, you know, bitching and moaning and crying, and everybody in their daily lives. All the things we take for granted and we complain when something isn't convenient or whatever, and you have this simple little thing give you so much joy of putting your art, which you know I would think a lot of listeners could probably do more than not and it's something we take for granted and it's something that brought you granted and it's something that brought you so much joy. So I appreciate that you shared that, because I think we all need that perspective once in a while. It's not about comparing pain or comparing lives, but just to remember that the things we take for granted sometimes are the things that somebody else is so desperately wishing for.
Speaker 2:Right, and it was just like oh you know, like I haven't been able, I can't put my hair in a ponytail because I can't do it one armed and I can't braid it.
Speaker 1:So when they were braiding it I was like oh my God, my hair is being braided for surgery.
Speaker 2:So I don't know if anybody has seen, but I was doing something funny before they came in. I did a Snapchat video with aha take on me and I'm in the hospital room in my gown and I'm, like, you know, doing the back and forth thing and it's like fun and I'm like I'm self-abusing, because they first canceled me the day before, at the very last second, and then they called me in the morning when I was supposed to have it and said all right, hurry up, get over here, I don't care, you're two hours away and we're going to start in two hours and 20 minutes. And I'm like, oh my God, so I get there. And I'm like I need caffeine, I have headache, you know, whatever. And so they were trying to get me ready and my husband and child were out in the waiting area, and so I was just like taking the phone and doing this, you know, and just having fun, waiting, waiting, yeah.
Speaker 1:And we were talking about that actually before we came on. I think that's important. Sorry, I just knocked myself here. I have to move all the time.
Speaker 1:I can't do squats and lunges, so I'm like putting my feet up and my knee, you know, legs up on this. I need to stretch and move and anyway. But we were talking about like we need to remember to do those things that bring us joy. Joy even in the worst circumstances. You were you're basically having impromptu surgery, like major and it's a pretty. When you were describing it to me it scared me, but I mean I love that you could like take a minute to like remember to be you and have fun and just do do something joyful, because that's what we lose in life is that playfulness and the fun. Even in the worst of circumstances, you can find something that's positive.
Speaker 2:Well, and of course, knowing who I am, as I'm being wheeled down and I'm like I don't want for set.
Speaker 1:I don't want any of this. I don't, I don't.
Speaker 2:Nope, nope, nope. I love the coldness of an operating room. I love how freezing cold it is. I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2:So, as I'm going in, I'm like you have kids. I know a surgeon has kids. You have kids and I'm passing out stucco squad membership for their kids and I'm like here's a bracelet for your kid, here's a bracelet for your kid, you know. And they're like that's not sanitary. And I'm like, well, nobody's gone in and done what they're supposed to at this hospital. And I was like so here you go, here you go, here you go. I'm like handing out little bracelets for their kids and vip cards. And I don't, I love it. I love how you're like marketing in the surgical room. I'm like that's what you guys can't afford, it, but it's free for your kids, it's helping realize how amazing they are. Right, the self-esteem, there's no fee to it. And I'm like, because you know, a lot of doctors are cheap, and I'm like here, not to us, but to themselves and I'm like here, you know, and let your kids have a bracelet and go, sign on and have fun.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, that was all sorts of loving and exciting me. Why is it that the narcissistic parent gets like scot-free away with everything? And I can agree with that because, like my sperm donor, you know, as shocking as it is, is like knock on wood as I knock on my head outside of injuries. You know, I've never been sick like outside of injuries and um, he, his, his bloodline, bloodline my, my grandmother had cancer, my grandfather had cancer, my grandfather had heart conditions. And why? I've had people ask why does it seem like even the demons don't want to infect the narcissistic parent because they're never sick. Nothing ever happens to them, they get away.
Speaker 1:No, they're not. I can explain that. I mean, if somebody really wants an answer, unless you were about to explain it, yeah, I don't think that people understand, because I didn't understand it until we've all heard that stress can kill you. And you know, if anyone has read my first book, gasping for Air, that's what made me sick was what I call life stress, chronic stress. It actually causes when you have that much cortisol, the stress hormone and other things happening in your body as a result of chronic stress, which being abused, living with a narcissist, even if it's just I hate to say just verbal abuse, because it's almost the worst of all of them, but you know that is stressful. That is considered stress that actually causes inflammation in your joints. It causes white blood cells, red blood cells, everything is happening in your body. Cancer people don't realize comes from inflammation. The toxins in the foods you eat come from, you know, or create the inflammation. So, yes, living under that stress makes you sick.
Speaker 1:Autoimmunity is directly linked and solidly correlated over and over to abuse and abusive situations my lung syndrome to abuse and abusive situations. My lung syndrome, although very rare and a lot of doctors have never even heard of it. Guess what? It is highly common in victims of abuse. So, yes, if you're in an abusive situation, so what that means is the narcissist, yeah, they're going to live till freaking forever because they don't get sick. You know why? Because they have no remorse and no empathy. Right, but that's, that's my long explanation of they're not living under stress in their world. It's all about them and they.
Speaker 1:But I think this speaks to narcissism, because we can lay out a hundred different qualities of narcissists, but the two real big ones and all the different types are no remorse, no empathy. If you're not worried about what other people are feeling or thinking, you just don't give a flying F. Well, of course, then you're living pretty stress-free. Because I think one of the problems with the rest of us is we worry too much. We're worried. If I say this, problems with the rest of us is we worry too much. We're worried if I say this, if I do that, what will they think? My kid needs this. Nevermind me that they don't care, it's all about them. And what a nice way to live. No stress and they have no remorse.
Speaker 1:So they actually think that they are entitled and justified in doing all the things that they do, so they don't have the doubt and the worry and anxiety and all this other stuff that creates all the stress that they do, so they don't have the doubt and the worry and anxiety and all this other stuff that creates all the stress in our bodies, that creates the inflammation that causes us to have joint pain and back pain and cancers and this and that so sorry, I'm ranting because it pisses me off. This is where that that that listener that said where is the Puerto Rican going to come out? This is when the Puerto Rican comes out. I love it. It pisses me the F off that, yeah, they're going to live till they're F-ing 100 with no freaking problems and no cares in the world and they sleep real F-ing good at night, while you and I can barely get two or three hours of straight freaking sleep because we're so consumed with all the crap in our head of what they did to us. So that should answer everybody's questions.
Speaker 1:A lot of what we go through honestly does come to chemical bodily things, whether it's directly from our brain or in our bodies. But it's a very real mind-body connection and for those listeners that haven't really delved into that, I would encourage you really delved into that. I would encourage you to start looking into that, because even when I was a kid I, oh my gosh, once my mom moved us in with that man, that she's still married to my abusive stepfather. I mean, I really didn't get too much into it in my in my second book, but the stomach aches and the headaches, but most I mean to say it was chronic and I mean like chronic, like to the point where I just didn't want to play with the other kids or summer camp. I was always like huddled under a tree, like just holding my stomach and my head hurt and the heat didn't help and the sunshine and it's just a miserable way to grow up.
Speaker 1:But nobody thought anything of it. You know, of course my mother thought I was faking it, but it was. I'm realizing, looking back, what I know now. Those were all signs. All the miscarriages I had in my first marriage, before and after my son, those were all because my body was like not trying, you know, to carry a baby. I couldn't even barely function because I was living in survival mode. So how could I, how could I survive and allow a baby to survive with me? It's just your body really is an amazing thing the way it works, but it all goes back to what's what's up here, and when we're undergoing that much stress and the emotions, it really does affect the way our body works against us, unfortunately right.
Speaker 2:And I'm just curious because so many people say how come nothing ever happens to them? It's not fair. And you're right, it is absolutely not fair. It is a thousand percent not fair that they get to like skirt through and just be them. I mean, but you know it's fair that they get to like skirt through and just be them.
Speaker 1:I mean, but you know it's not that they get to, they choose to. That's the thing they choose to because they're making as narcissists. They are choosing not to care about anybody but themselves. They don't have the capability to care about anyone but themselves, and so there is no doubt, there is no anxiety, there is none of that stuff that creates all the illness. So they're not going to be sick, you know, and so it actually makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1:But no, it's not fair, it's not right, but it's the way it is, and what we need to do is learn to be, cause we all have some narcissistic qualities, but we don't want to be like them. But we want to be like them in the sense that we work, we heal enough to get rid of that self-doubt and to not have that anxiety, to stand firm in our truth and to assert ourselves and set boundaries. We're still going to have a little of that like should I, shouldn't I? I'm worried about if I say this or do that. But if we can get pretty confident in who we are and stand in our worth, then we can eliminate a lot of that. But no, we don't want to strive, certainly, to be like them.
Speaker 2:Right, and you know I this is probably kind of out left field, but I just wanted to give the edification of it to do this process with this device in my back. It goes into your brain, it goes up in your neck and it goes into your brain. And the thing is is that what I found to be ironic is that they make you sit with a psychiatrist for four hours and you have to do it, or insurance doesn't approve it, and the psychiatrist has to explain to you that you're going to get some kind of foreign body into your body and how your body has to get acclimated to it. Right? So I meet with this psychiatrist sweet, wonderful woman and she's like I said, listen, do I really have to do four hours of this? This is not my first game. I have a toolbox within my body. I am full of tools and plates and screws. I mean I'm like a dinner collection at Macy's and I said this is nowhere near my first go. I mean I'm like a dinner collection at Macy's and I said this is nowhere near my first go. I mean my shoulder has been replaced. I have a plate here and I have 32 pieces in my face or 26, whatever it is. I was like I'm full of metal and I really don't think I need this four hour thing.
Speaker 2:And she's like well, I have to have you do questions and stuff so that I can do this. So we're we're talking, excuse me. And so she goes on and she's like yeah, I think after about 40 minutes we're done. And so I was like thank you, I said, but let me ask you something.
Speaker 2:Why is it that we have to go through to be tested to see if we are psychologically sane and stable to get a device put in us, but people who are abused their abusers don't have to do anything? And she's like I know I don't understand it at all at all. And she's like because most people that I have to interview have been through something traumatic in order to get this kind of device put in, and most of the time it's a car accident or something like that and I get it. But she's like I don't understand why you know all these other adjectives don't have to go through any of this. And she's like it makes no sense to me at all. And she's like our system is so backwards and and messed up because first thing should be done is like a huge psycho, psychological evaluation on these idiots who are doing so many things wrong and they're not. They're just getting a big old, good old boy pat on the back and they mosey on their way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's very true.
Speaker 1:But then you know I what recalled in my mind when you were talking like that and I agree with you wholeheartedly talking like that, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. But you know I remember when my mother and stepfather wanted to once again scapegoat me that I must be crazy, you know, or whatever, because you know they weren't. They were neglectful and abusive. But my mother insisted on taking me to the hospital because I had to be on drugs, because I was crying over. You know something that happened at school was being teased be on drugs because I was crying over. You know something that happened at school was being teased a lot and I was just having a hard time and you know I had emotions and she didn't know what to do with me having emotions. So I had to be on drugs that was like a theme of my childhood and fast forward at the hospital. You know I get she insisted, I get tested for everything and of course I actually, to this day 49, never done any recreational drugs, never smoked pot, nothing, never smoked a cigarette actually either. But you know they did end up bringing a psychiatrist at her insistence and you know I didn't. I mean, he noticed, you know, and my mother actually pointed out oh look, she must be self-inflicting. You know, she's got marks on her and I'm like, yeah, because you just like strangled me and threw me downstairs and stuff, and that was another night. Sorry, I can't keep track of these, but there was a scuffle at home and yeah, I had red marks, my bruises, scratches, everything, and I didn't say anything. But you know, of course I mean especially. I mean you work with a lot of kids that you know have been in abusive homes or are currently, and they're afraid, you're afraid to say anything, like I almost did just take the fall. I would have taken the fall and just been thought crazy, diagnosed as crazy, instead of admitting what actually happened because of that fear.
Speaker 1:But no, it's just like when people say, oh, can a narcissist be rehabilitated? Because strangely, there are actually people that believe in this diagnosis, you know, and believe that, oh, with two years of therapy, they, they'll be better. And you know, bull crap, I don't believe that for a damn second, because there is no, unless it's a covert narcissist that's trying to gain, like you'll see these, like on TikTok, I see them. Oh, I, you know, here's a narcissist on a live. You know that. Asked me anything about narcissists? But I'm a rehabilitated bullcrap Using the term. You are trying to gain attention for yourself. You are hopping on a trend for the notoriety and the fame. You are not admitting you're a narcissist. You stupid shit.
Speaker 2:It's like that Feed Me, seymour from you know that movie, oh, 100%. And it's like feed me, feed my ego, feed me feed me, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:And the only reason they're going to go to therapy is if they can make you out to be a crazy person or somehow get some kind of gain from it. But they're not going to go willingly and say, yeah, there's something wrong with me, are you kidding? It's always going to be something wrong with you, yeah absolutely Always.
Speaker 2:There's always going to be something and they cannot take responsibility, they can't take accountability for any of their actions. They can't and they won't, it doesn't matter. And you know, it's mind boggling to me that these people just think that really and truly they've done nothing wrong. And it's not them, it's us, right. And I just want to, like, take my you know again, my psychological evaluation and put it in their face and be like, hey, momo here, look, you know, and it's like it's not us but the people who need to be on the couch are the ones that never want to go, right, they, they don't want to go, they're just like no. And you know one of the parents that I'm working this horrific case this is probably probably one of the top two cases I've ever worked with. That was so much work and part of the family is just a godsend. They're amazing. And then there's another part of the family where I'm just like Beetlejuice and like they knew I had surgery and I'm going to be very cryptic. They knew I had surgery. So this is day two, because I had it on Wednesday.
Speaker 2:So yesterday I tried to just drive in my neighborhood just to make sure, because you can't turn or twist, and I want to make sure, if God gets something happening to Faith, that I can drive. And for those of you who maybe knew, we welcome you, but Faith has had a lot of medical issues. So if people are like, why is Mom driving? Faith has had a lot of medical issues and was life-threatening issues a year ago. So I'm a medical mom on top of everything else and so I'm always ready, god forbid.
Speaker 2:So this person that I'm helping messages me, knowing I just had surgery, and asked me to go pick up your child. And I was like what? And I looked at my husband. I was like, are you serious right now? And I was like go pick up your cane, because you don't want to put three other kids in car seats and go get your child yourself. And I'm like, oh my, when this court? I have court next week for this, with them as their advocate. I'm done Like it's. You know I will go to the moon and back. Anybody who knows me knows that I will go to the moon and back and I am your biggest advocate. I will fight for you with you, by you. Anything I can do, I will do, but if you won't get your ass off of the pot and do something for yourself and those kids. More importantly, forget you work about these kids and you don't want to do what's right by these kids. Then you know what you don't deserve these kids Like yeah, agreed I mean.
Speaker 1:I'm going to say we all know you're very giving and generous and all that, and I'm not dismissing that. But you should not ever have to qualify why you feel the way you feel, because that is just the narcissistic temperament. You know, somebody just asked me earlier today what was it about you that your narcissistic ex found attractive, like, why did they prey on you? And I said servitude. That's what every narcissist wants Servitude. He sniffed me out, coming out of an abusive childhood, even though I was like nobody's ever going to treat me that way again. I'm going to you know I'm strong and I'm independent and I'm smart and all this. He sniffed out that I would do anything for the love that I hadn't gotten in my childhood. I would hold onto it for dear life and try and put my all to the thousand percent. Servitude Served me up on a silver platter to that mother trucker, and that's how I ended up in that 20.
Speaker 1:Yes, they lure you, they say they. He said exactly what I needed to hear you tell a girl that never experienced love from either parents in her whole freaking childhood and was beaten and called all kinds of things. Oh, it's the two of us against the world. It's you and me forever God. I didn't like him, but that was very alluring to me. That would. That was a fantasy, and he promised it to me. He promised me everything I ever wanted and he promised it to me.
Speaker 2:He promised me everything I ever wanted, and they're very charismatic. They're so charismatic it is a sick and twisted talent that they possess. They have on this ability to find your weakness and placate on it. Like, I wanted kids so badly, I wanted to be a mom so badly, and when Michael and I had broken up, I was devastated. I knew he was mine forever. I knew back then and I was devastated. And then all of a sudden this thing comes into my life and it was like you would be such a great mom and my, my family fosters, foster kids and you know, everything in there.
Speaker 2:And then I was like I'm so selfish because I wasn't attracted to him. There was nothing I could find I can relate, right, and I'm like maybe I'm just being so shallow. And and then, right, it's like, well, you give all this time to him and you didn't go anywhere. Why don't you? And then, the next thing, you know, you're like in the express lane of a relationship. You're like, dude, slow down, and it's, it really is, it's, it's.
Speaker 1:They literally sweep you off your feet. They know they are able. I mean, I've heard it said about like you know certain really good salesmen, or or you know people in high positions that you know certain really good salesmen, or you know people in high positions that you know they just have this gift of just. They can meet you in two, three seconds, know your weakness and know how to sell you that whatever. Whatever it is and it's the same with narcissists they literally do have a sense. They, they know, and you don't even know, that you're giving off the vibe or giving the information. But the one thing if I can give anyone any information I had learned a little late, but you have to learn to just keep everything close, because the one thing that I can say that I have given to my son is this gift of knowledge that if you want to keep something a secret, you don't tell anyone because I don't care. You tell your best friend, your mama, your sister, oh, don't tell, oh, they're going to tell. Okay, how many times have all of us said I'm not supposed to tell, but hey, honey, at dinnertime, but don't tell anybody because I wasn't supposed to tell you. And the next thing, you know the whole damn town knows, at least that's how it works out here. So you know you don't say anything because you know what happens with narcissists and I have had narcissists that I didn't know were narcissists that ended up.
Speaker 1:This last one, really just, she has taken every damn thing I've ever said or done and twisted it real good, really well. She's very crafty, but everything. It could be your favorite color, it could be your favorite ice cream, it could be something you wore one time. It doesn't matter Any tiny bit of information they're collecting in their head because they will find a way it's going to be used to lure you, to smear you, to hurt you. Whatever it is, you don't even know.
Speaker 1:Oh, I look, I have one child. He's my everything. Oh well, now, now you've just told them that the way that they're going to hurt you is to pit that kid against you one day, or to do something to your kid, or to smear your kid's name, because then you're going to react and they can say oh look, she's crazy. See, I told you she was nuts. You know they're very interesting. So I always tell people if you even think somebody's a narcissist and, believe me, we've all had conversations with people and had no clue. But keep things close because everything will be used against you, literally.
Speaker 2:Yeah everything, everything does, and it's. It's sad because I'm so sorry, I hate this because that too much.
Speaker 1:It's okay, honey, you don't have to be sorry. You had surgery.
Speaker 2:But it's. It's the fact that, like you know, you go above and beyond to help people and they find that that one weakness, and you know, most people don't realize the bigger. And when I say this, some people are like what? And I really want our listeners to hear this, because what most people don't realize is people are so threatened by the narcissist right that the narcissist is that that evil that you know, is the opposite of live, turn, live around and it spells out evil right.
Speaker 1:So it does, and it's like no, I know that the character in my last book. What was the evelyn? Because the beginning of that is evil.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and damien was mine because of the demon. But the thing is is that when you think about it, and they are just this horrific mastermind who placates on you, but then, as it goes on and on, do you know who really is the one that has it? It's the black sheep, because we are the ones that will come out and we know the truth. And so they try to belittle us because, in their mind, as a narcissist, they fear the black sheep and that's why they try so hard to tear us down, not only to ourselves but to everyone around, that we're the liars, that we're the crazy ones, because we hold the truth and they don't want it to come to fruition. So, in a way, we are their biggest fear, because they but see, so many of our listeners haven't realized that yet.
Speaker 2:I really wanted us to talk about that today, because so many people are like it's the narcissist who ruins our life, it's the narcissist who has so, so much control. But see, they take who they consider to be the weak one, which is the golden child, and they, you know, put them up on such a platter that they're wonderful, and then they keep the siblings apart so that they don't communicate with each other. But it's the strong-willed ones who get all the proof and the evidence, like we have, that know the truth. But the narcissists think they can scare us into submission where we won't be forthcoming with it. But at the end of the day, the narcissist has to threaten us with left, right and center of everything, like one of the dumbest, and I will own it. One of the absolute dumbest things and I've been doing this 19 years that I've ever heard from a narcissist is if you tell your mother that I'm seeing another woman, I'm going to make her believe that you made me do it and this actually came from my sperm donor.
Speaker 1:Right, this is actually at home, but he would do that. That's the thing they don't care. I know I. I read your book narc narc, who's there?
Speaker 2:that's what this podcast is named after who in the hell can actually as women? You know, most of our listeners are women. There are some men and we welcome everyone. But who in the hell can say, okay, my spouse is cheating on me and my child made them do it? Let me do this as ungraphic as possible. We don't make that other person put anything of theirs or the other one the narcissist into one another. We're not like playing Legos. We're not connecting them together. Their actions are doing it and they're trying to push it off on us as an escape group. It and they're trying to push it off on us as an escape group.
Speaker 2:So when my, my sperm donor said, hey, if you advise your egg donor that I'm seeing other women, I'm gonna make her believe you made me. Well, let's dissect that for just a minute, because so many people who listen to us don't understand the minds of a narcissist, and that's great because that means you're. You're really not this control of narcissists. But the narcissist realizes that the black sheep has this information. They are a little concerned and worried that maybe you would give it out. So that's another reason they try to make you out to be a habitual liar, that you're psychotic, you're crazy, you're bipolar, you're this, you're that.
Speaker 1:May I intervene? One thing Absolutely I don't think they're scared or worried. I think they do that intentionally. I don't think they're capable of concern or worry. They want you to have that information. They want you to know, because now their responsibility is on you and it's their test. Are you going to be loyal to me or are you going to be loyal to that other person?
Speaker 2:Right, and you're going to get screwed regardless Either way, right? So it was my fault quote unquote that my son took a woman away for a weekend. We'll just use that analogy. But we didn't. But they try to make it where it's almost like they don't take ownership for anything. And you need to realize that they have no ability to have accountability, no ability to take responsibility when something happens. It's never their fault, it's always someone else's fault. It doesn't matter where you are. You can be in a different state, you could be in a different country, it doesn't matter. It's still your fault, because whatever the narcissist want didn't fall into place correctly and they cannot hold themselves accountable for their incorrectness. They can't say that they will not.
Speaker 1:Well, they have an agenda. They have an agenda and what they have to do is, if you are threatening their agenda for themselves, then you have to either be on board with them. You either have to be for them, and if you are not for them, you are against them.
Speaker 2:That is how it is.
Speaker 1:So they I always like say my stepfather, I was the horse he couldn't break, because I never looked at my brother necessarily as weak it was, just he was. I call it pliable because, you know, fathers and mothers are, should love their children, they should be Well, they were with him, they were with him and so in my brother's mind he's thinking I must be the problem because the same two people are parenting him and they are the best parents that anybody could ever even imagine having, which they were to him Even I will say to him they were absolutely that to me it was a fricking horror show. And and it's just very interesting, you know narcissistic parents and narcissistic partners. It's very similar. I mean, it's all the same. But either way, they have an agenda and the agenda is always putting them at the top, putting them, and it's. You know, even in narcissistic friendships. If you threaten something about them, some insecurity that they have about themselves, if they think you're going to do better, be better, god forbid. If they think you're a little prettier than them, especially women. Forgive me, but women are the worst narcissists ever when it comes to narcissistic friendships. They're just nasty. I just can't deal with it. But you're going to be ruined. You are going to be. They will take everything and what they do, trying to call you crazy and everything else, basically everything they are. They will say you are including, you're the narcissist. And it the only thing that I think, and I think everybody will agree.
Speaker 1:I still struggle to understand, like in my own experiences. I know, I literally know somebody who's a rocket scientist for NASA that has been swayed by narcissistic bullshit and I'm like, like you're a supremely intelligent person. I know doctors, surgeons, judges, attorneys that have believed with no evidence, no proof whatsoever, and become flying monkeys for these narcissists and I just that's the thing that always stunts me is because I try to think I'm always trying to play devil's advocate, even if I feel a certain way. I'm like, okay, like let's look at this. You know, like, maybe this or maybe where, where can we find some element of proof or substantiate this somehow? But I don't know how they do it with with nothing but taking. You know they can take one, one line text and you mean this and they know what you mean, but they will twist it around and make everybody, buddy, believe this. You're villainized and you're, you're the horrible human being. You know I recently I don't, I don't know if you remember I had somebody my most recent narcissist, the one in book three, evelyn, had one of her flying monkeys who happens to be a 70-some-year-old woman who is a well-respected government employee, a judge in our government.
Speaker 1:She actually somehow got this woman to post a review on one of my books and, by the way, it was supposed to be a review of book three but she accidentally I guess they should get their information right she put it on book two. But this woman actually put that like. She made it out, like she knows me personally. That's how she started to set like she knows me personally and she's got the dirt because we're like, we're so close and I'm like, yeah, I knew that she was a client of mine at one point. We never engaged socially, never, ever. I never said anything to her about any anyway. So this third narcissist somehow convinced the 70 some year old judge that I used to know that was a client to say she knew me personally and she knows for a fact that I'm really the narcissist that she's staying as cold hearted and manipulative. And then she did cross the line, though I'm not going to lie, I was annoyed by this, but I was pissed when she spoke my like.
Speaker 1:She brought my son into it and said she knows for a fact that I abused my son for years and I'm like now you better watch it. If you're a small town like just running around running your mouth, I could almost let that go. But knowing this is from a judge a judge whose whole career is based on evidence and finding truth and substantiating claims with proof and you're going to defame my character when there is zero, zero evidence. Not to mention, I am a victim of child abuse myself and in that marriage with my son, I did everything to protect him, including throwing my little, tiny hundred pound body over him, even when he was 17 years old, to protect him from his father's fist. So kiss my ass, you stupid bitch. But beyond that, I'm still pissed. That like how, how does somebody with an intelligent brain believe bullshit? Excuse my language, everybody, I'm on it, right? No? But I think it's an interesting thing because it's like, okay, the narcissist or an a-hole is an a-hole, right, I always say that. But the flying monkeys are what get me, because this goes back to what you were starting to say about your sperm donor Cause. What got me about that situation?
Speaker 1:When I did read Narc Narc, who's there? Your latest book, it was that, yes, if, if you tell your mother, it's going to be blamed on you. But my problem is is that, like my mother, she would probably believe it. So the problem's not so much the narcissist but again, the people who believe it. Why would? I can't speak for your mother. I have an idea, but I can speak for mine. My mother would believe it because my mother, I mean we can talk about all the abuse she endured in her life and obviously, I can presume at the hands of her own husband. But my mother's a dissociator, she's a gaslighter. None of that ever happened. Like, even when I would be like being literally abused, five feet behind her and screaming for her to help me as I'm getting beat the crap out of, she would just be washing dishes, looking out the window, like she can dissociate, like nobody's business and like take herself. I don't know if she was like astrally relocating, but like literally, just like remove herself from the situation.
Speaker 1:And I think that in my case, if that had happened to me, you know, my mother would have believed that it was my fault. My mother would have believed that I somehow hooked them up and just invited them on this you know weekend thing, that I was going on so that they could consummate their you know, forbidden love or whatever. It would be my fault, it wouldn't be his fault, it wouldn't be the other woman's fault, it would be my fault, just like, I think, with your mother. I think that these women know exactly what they're in and they know exactly what they're dealing with. And your mother's a peach in herself, but you know. Egg donor sorry, but you know, I think that they tolerate. I always say they enable, excuse and tolerate because they're getting a benefit In my mother's case.
Speaker 1:My mother has actually told me on a few occasions that well, if, if, she would ever leave her husband, she, she, she likes her big, fancy house and she likes her fancy cars and she likes her fancy, she can go and shop and buy and do and nothing else matters, including me. So you know, and that's her. You know what we can just say horrible is a judgment, and I agree I'm not like that. But at the same time you know what. That's her choice. We all have free will. It's her loss, she all have free will.
Speaker 2:That's her loss.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely, I'm fabulous. You are beyond that. But you know, what the thing is is that I always say this. I say this almost every episode Biology does not make you inherently compatible with people on a social level.
Speaker 1:Just putting steam out of somebody's body does not mean you're going to get along. I wish, I wish that every girl had the relationship that you have with your daughter, that mother-daughter relationship. Every woman should have you as a mom and every daughter should have that mom that they know, no matter what they go through in life. My mom's got my back and it sickens me. My mom has left me hang out to dry and literally fend for my life by myself. Nobody should and I hate the word should but nobody should have to endure that. It should be what you and your daughter have.
Speaker 1:You know even me and my son. We're good, but not like you and your daughter. You know what I mean and and I wish he at least had his dad, even though his dad's a POS, you know, but he doesn't even have that with his dad it's. It just doesn't work that way. It just doesn't work that way. So we find our family in the people that do love us and accept us, and I would even go so far in my experience to argue that the people that love you and they don't have an obligation to, because they're not your blood relation, they're not your second cousin on your mother's side, separated by six or whatever. They don't. Get people that love you willingly and want to love you, that's better than somebody that's supposed to love you. That's all I'm saying. So find your people. The people are out there and you don't maybe need a whole big bunch of people. Maybe it's just one or two. Even that's better than nothing. That's better. That's better than anything.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I have to tell you like, even when I was having this last surgery, and Faith is in there, the doctor comes in, anesthesiology comes in and she's like good luck, because my mom's not doing her set, my mom's not doing this. She's like and I'm very smart about whenever I'm having it I was like do you guys have any questions? For the team, because I want her to feel heard, I want her to feel vocalized. So she was like, yeah, come here. And for the team, because I want her to feel heard, I want her to feel vocalized. And so she was like, yeah, come here. And so the guy walks over and she was like how many times have you done this? How many times have you put these wires into someone's brain? How many times?
Speaker 2:It's a valid question, Right. And so she's like I'm not done, so don't answer me. And you know I'm sitting there and I'm trying so hard not to laugh. And she was like let me make sure you understand this. And she's like I might be little, but I'm powerful and I have a very big mouth and I'm not putting up with any crap. And I'm telling you right now that I better not hear that you made not even one, not even one mistake on my mom. I mean it because the only thing you have going for you is that there's empty beds in this facility. That's what she said.
Speaker 2:She's like because I can't replace my mom, Nobody can replace my mom and if something happens, I can't function without my mom because I have obstacles that I've had to come over and there are things that I know I can't do that my mom has to help me do. But she tries to teach me in different ways and, of course, my husband was like what about me? And she's like what about you? And so she told the doctor she was like what about you? No, it's not the same, yeah. And so she told the doctor she's like I don't want you to do anything that causes one iota of unnecessary pain on my mom, like, and she's like I wonder how many times you've put these wires in someone's head. I want to know, you know. And she's like I don't want a blood clot, I don't want this, I don't want that. And she's you better say you're going to do your best care. And she's like I want to know if you're tired. It's the end of the day. You called her in at the last minute. Is this your last surgery for the day?
Speaker 2:My mom is not a case, she is a person. And I'm just sitting there, I'm so proud, I'm like such a mom. And she's like my mom takes care of me and I take care of her. And it was like and then it was the sweetest thing, because people don't do that anymore, Like you know, they don't. And then she was like I'm I'm small, so be careful, because I can find you. And you know it's just, it's adorable. And she was serious.
Speaker 1:And then you know what it's, because she understands she loves so fiercely and so loyally. I mean, I, I, I I'm going to interfere with just a little tidbit, my favorite memory of her, that that this reminds me of, and it was just like a couple months ago, but like out of nowhere, like we weren't even like communicating. She just randomly texts me you know like what's your husband's name? And I said Doug, and she goes is Doug good to you? I said yeah, he's very good to me, and she goes are you sure? Are you sure I'm like? Yeah, I'm very sure why she's like, because if he's not, I can do stuff I can make you know I'm like honey, are you looking for a fight? But it was like. That was her way of saying I love you.
Speaker 2:That was like she goes to kiss me on the forehead when they're about to wheel me out and she takes her two fingers and puts them to her eyes and to their eyes and she's like I'm watching you, I'm watching you and she's like I'm ready. And then she starts to crack her knuckles and I'm like all right, billy, bad Butt, go, sit down. I mean, she's only like five, three and you know she's cute, she's tough and she's like I'm I'm warning you, I'm she's like I'm not scrappy for a reason and it's just so cute and I'm like I love you, she's like I love you. And then, as they're willing to be down the hall, she's like I warned you, like really, really loud, and it's just the sweetest, sweetest kid you know.
Speaker 2:And and that's the thing, and she worships you, like this is aunt dana, like she'll be messaging, and she's laughing. I'm like what are you laughing at? She's like, oh, and dana and I are talking and I'm like do you mind telling her sister says hi, the sister from another mister. She's like I'll get to it, mom, are you serious? I was like she messages you more than she messages me.
Speaker 1:She's like don't be mad, it's okay I'm like I message her because there are a few people. There are very few people. It's not like I'm too good or too busy for anybody, but I mean I got. I do have a lot going on right now.
Speaker 1:Like I am honestly overwhelmed, like I'm an octopus all eight tentacles of my octopusism here is like they're like being stretched way thin. But there are very few people that I will always respond to, and your daughter's one of them, although if I don't respond to her right away, I get like, when I come back to my phone, the question marks and I'm like honey, stop question marking me, I will get to you when I can. If I don't respond to you right away, it's because I'm on a zoom with a client, whatever, yeah, she, she doesn't care. So I get questions I get all the time. I can't even respond quick enough. I know she's very impatient that way, but it's okay. You know what? I appreciate that she asserts herself, because I know for a fact that there is no way in hell that anybody's ever going to mess with her, and I wish that for all of us, including you and me and all of our listeners. I mean, one of the most powerful things we can do is stand very firm in knowing who we are, what we deserve, what we will and will not tolerate, and I mean making it very clear to the people who we allow in our lives, and I think that's an important thing, because that's your. You know, people want to know, or what are the red flags that screw the red flags and all that? That the reality is, if you set those boundaries and you're very clear, that that's it. There is no compromising. There is no compromising.
Speaker 1:I've been, you know, Doug does often, you know, bring up that I'm a little rigid, I'm a lot rigid. But I told him, unfortunately, I'm not even sure, I had boundaries. If I did, they were very loose, they were floating around in the Atlantic Ocean somewhere, maybe the Pacific, because I like Hawaii, but you know, they were nowhere near Now, man, those boundaries are there, were nowhere near now. Man, those boundaries are there. They're like an electric effing fence that I that you will get shocked if you cross one of those or if you even try to. And I said, sometimes you, you know, yeah, your balls get zapped. Because I need to be very firm. Right now I'm going to be probably too firm on my boundaries because that is my way of ensuring that nobody's ever well, somebody's probably still going to hurt me, but I at least will ensure that I will never be abused or mistreated by anybody.
Speaker 1:You know, unexpectedly, I guess, is the best way to say it, but I, you know, faith is an amazing example of that, and I think it's an example of what happens when the things that have happened to you, you know, occur, that you don't want that to happen to your daughter.
Speaker 1:And we all know that we're not going to live forever. And we got to, we got to instill all of our wisdom and all the things that we wished, we knew and that we had in ourselves, in our children, because we never know when our time's up. And so I think you have, you have very clearly done that because she's trying to, you know, beat my husband's ass and he's as big as your husband and we're a few states over, so she has no like. There is nothing that's going to stop her. If I said he was mean to me and I'm crying, man, I'm pretty sure she'd be here in a few hours banging on the door ready to brass knuckle him. I know she would, and God love it, god love it. But we need to all take a little lesson from her. Even if we a little well, we can take it down a little bit of a notch and not go looking for those fights.
Speaker 2:But we'll leave like mom told me I can't start it but I can stop. And I'm like well, don't instate them either. Right, we're gonna just right. You know, right, exactly, she's so sweet because in front of our bed is like one of those benches that you sit on, and she was like mom, I can findches that you sit on. And she was like mom, I can find a way to sit on that and sleep on that, be in here with you. And I was like that is so sweet. No, because I worry, because she used to have seizures, she used to have epilepsy. If she hits her head, they can't come back. And so she's like mom, I could, I could sleep on the bench. And I was like no. And then she's like how about? Dad sleeps on the sofa?
Speaker 2:And I'm like yeah, I was gonna say that's not a bad idea and so I'm like you know, and she's like I'm right here and like it's so funny because she'll text me constantly Like mom, are you okay? And I tried to explain to her that one. I only have one hand, which I think by now she'd know. So I don't hold the phone in my hand 24-7. So let's just say, for instance, right now the phone is on the other side of my desk and I'm not allowed to turn, twist, pull, push, bend over nothing. So if I try to reach over, just like you just said, and it takes me a minute because I have to like reel the chair and I have to get on the phone, I have to get on the phone.
Speaker 2:I have like 18 question marks. Why didn't you answer me? What's the problem? What's going on? Why didn't I hear anything? Hello, and I'm like I was reaching for the phone. Why did it take you so long? What's the problem? And I'm like you know, and it's cute, because she doesn't have the ability to understand time management.
Speaker 1:And I get it. But it's good, especially with her watching out for you. I mean, it shows that she's concerned, but it also is comforting at least for me not being anywhere near you that she would know. You know, and maybe it's a little excessive with the question marks and the worry, but it's not a bad thing, you know, especially because you do. You two do have to look out for each other's medical situations and if anything's going to happen to you, it would be discovered pretty quickly if there was an issue. But yes, believe me, I know I have to text her. Like I'm now at the point where I'm like, okay, so like I have like back-to-back appointments all day, or I'm going to be at a family thing or something, like I'm not going to have my phone on me, so if I don't, she's still you know, but.
Speaker 2:But I try to like she's like I never want to lose my Andean, never, never, never, never, never. There's no losing anybody. And I was like you're good and like the other day, getting ready for surgery, like you have to jump in and take an antibacterial shower because the the wash wipes they use, I can't use them. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna jump in the shower, I drop the shampoo bottle and I swear to you, I don't know who ran upstairs first. They're banging on the door. What happened? Are you okay? What happened? What happened? I'm like I dropped the shampoo bottle. It was slippery, it's good, I'm good, I'm fine, really, just it's good.
Speaker 1:But you, know what, if you were with a narcissist and that happened, there would be nobody coming.
Speaker 2:No, that's so true.
Speaker 1:They would turn up the TV, or that's what my ex liked to do. Just turn up the TV drown me out. So you know that's a good thing that they're coming checking on you. That's that's healthy. We want healthy relationships.
Speaker 2:I know we still have so many I can't even imagine oh my goodness, chapters of questions that I'm still putting together. So we are going to get better. This is all my fault, because of my surgeries, that we haven't been able to do an episode lately, and y'all can count me for that, because that's on me, so I'm gonna. If she, I'll get on her schedule soon enough.
Speaker 1:We're both yeah, we're both just very busy, so it's not a big deal. We will get to these questions. We are going to keep chucking away and we'll get there. But I think I speak for everybody, victoria, that we just want you to get better. We are hopeful that this surgery will help you not have as much pain as you've had to deal with. I know you're like tough and rough and no, no medication, no painkillers, and here I whine about my pellet in my ass hurting. But you know, we just want you to be good, we want you to feel good and, despite what you say, you are beautiful and you look amazing. It's fine. I only have the makeup and hair done today. I mean, not that I don't love you and try to look okay for you, but I don't care what I look like when I come on. I just have had other things today that I had to look like. I didn't crawl out of the TV like the girl from the ring, so that's all. No, you do not look like. Don't point at you.
Speaker 2:I can't even raise my hands above my neck.
Speaker 1:I'm not allowed to have my hand over my no, who walks around with their hands over their head? You don't need to raise your hands over your head to get drugs. I like your. You got like a track suit on.
Speaker 2:It's like I can't even put a bra on underneath it, so it's you know, so I never wear a bra.
Speaker 1:I probably shouldn't say that on a podcast that so many people listen to. I don't wear bras. They're annoying. Or are your titties big? You have big boobs, don't you?
Speaker 2:I've had a reduction because they replaced my shoulder, but they're still not as tall.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, okay, well, I've never had that problem. I mean, you know, I always get the guys that are like my grandpa said more than a handful of ways that I mean, when you've had that said you numerous times, you're like okay, I got little titties, I get it they give you.
Speaker 2:When you have a reduction, they lift you, so you never really have to wear a bra again, which is great, and you don't have to worry about flopping over to the sides.
Speaker 1:That's great, but uh, yeah so I wish I had problems of flopping and I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if I had a walk around naked are you kidding me? I would always be walking around like I'd be going around the hospital with my gown open in the back. Yeah, look at this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can't see that right now on Thursday.
Speaker 2:Like you know it's, that's what I do like. Look at this.
Speaker 1:It's a solar eclipse right here, extra padding too much no I am actually digging your like.
Speaker 1:Your track suit reminds me of like 80s, that group in the 80s. I know I'm thinking, like I'm thinking. I have the song playing in my head and I can't think of it. You say Minuto, I'm hanging up. No, it wasn't Minuto. I had a Minuto t-shirt, though they were Puerto Ricans. No, the rap group Run DMC. It's tricky. Yes, run DMC, I'm like running the song it. So we just have to get matching track suits and we can make a video or something me, you and and faith. Well, I'd say michael and doug, but I don't know if they make track suits for men that are, we can't even find them.
Speaker 2:Shoes right, like, no, I'm wearing this because it's it's. I wear surgically friendly clothes and they, like I literally have to wear waistband pants so that they can not hit all the stuff all over my back. I think I don't have hair on my back Cause I think I'd be not a happy person. Then this is just a zip up because I can't you know, I can't button right now. You can't like reach up here and button and I just zip it up and it's like I'm not going anywhere, I'm home. No, it's cute. I like run dmc. I can still jam to it. I can't do the right stuff, I can't do it right now.
Speaker 2:I'm just like, and the drive home was the longest drive because my husband had to drive it and I'm like this is the longest two hours of my life, like, and I'm sitting there and and you know, he used to be a cop too and I'm like, dude, the speed limit is 70, grandmas are passing you. You're doing 45 on the interstate. For the crying out loud, could you put a little metal in the foot? Like I, do you have any idea? He had precious cargo on board. No, he was tired and I couldn't drive. And so I'm like, for the love of God. You know, right now, instead of a two etm you have a two-hour 41 minute eta. Could you kind of just? You know there's no, just a little push down a little bit on the accelerator. It's the one next to the brake. You used to be in high-speed chases for crying out loud.
Speaker 1:What do you need to get him one of those like automatic driving cars that they drive themselves?
Speaker 1:but he'll definitely I rented one, a car that was like that it it was gosh. It was a few years back but honestly it freaked me out because I like to be in control on the road and like it was like bumper to bumper traffic, like it would start going and then and I mean the car was doing it but it was like it was I was going to panic, like it was not fun. But I would recommend Michael gets one so that he can drive the speed limit.
Speaker 2:He'll be ordering and be in a restaurant. He'll start ordering.
Speaker 1:He'll just like Are you serious? Then three seconds. If we ever got together, we just have to make sure there's two recliners, because I love Doug very much, but I don't know if it's because he's older than me or it's just him, but, my God, he can go to sleep anywhere anytime. And then he like does this thing where he's like forgive me, everybody hears me snort like a pig, Cause I'm like pretending to wake up from being asleep for the last 10 minutes. And then he'll be like oh, yeah, yeah, like pretending like he, he knows what's going on on TV. I know, I literally look at him. I'm like you have no freaking clue what's going on, don't even.
Speaker 2:He's like I think I fell asleep. No, no, what? No, we had a group of kids in the car and they were all like that's impossible. He went to sleep between the light turning yellow and red. Like how, how did he do that?
Speaker 1:I wish I could do that. I wish I could do it.
Speaker 2:I need that superpower, right like I thought I was about to doze off and they're all like. You're sorry, I'm like all right.
Speaker 1:Well, y'all heard enough about our husbands and their sleeping issues and my butt hurts, and your back, and I'm left in stitching they actually stitched me up and then put tape on top of it, so that's gonna be fun to take off.
Speaker 2:Let me tell you, oh my gosh, and they did it where I can't take them out myself mean people.
Speaker 1:Well, probably that's a good thing, because you do too much by yourself, but who shouldn't be doing that stuff?
Speaker 2:all right, well, thank you all for listening we'll get back on it and get to these questions and please send us, keep sending us, more questions.
Speaker 1:We will eventually get to them. You know christmas is coming and you know eight months or so, so eight months it's actually it's six months.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's eight months from today.
Speaker 1:It's christmas there you go, and you were trying to prove me wrong, sister never all right.
Speaker 2:Thank you guys for listening. I will get us back on schedule where we are doing this like we're supposed to. My apologies again, blame me, that's fine, that's okay.
Speaker 1:No, we're gonna. There's no blame involved. People just love listening to us and our fun redhead and our fun lives, and we'll get it together, people. Thank you. I'll talk to y'all soon bye.
