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A Contagious Smile Podcast
A Contagious Smile is a powerful platform dedicated to uplifting and empowering special needs families and survivors of domestic violence. Through heartfelt stories, we shine a light on the journeys of extraordinary individuals who have overcome unimaginable challenges. Their triumphs serve as a testament to resilience and strength, inspiring others to rediscover their own inner light. Each episode features candid interviews with survivors, advocates, and experts who provide valuable resources and insights to support those on their own paths to healing and empowerment. Join us as we celebrate the power of resilience, the beauty of shared stories, and the unstoppable spirit of those who turn adversity into hope. Let us guide you in rekindling your spirit, because every smile tells a story of courage and transformation.
A Contagious Smile Podcast
When Narcissists Strike Back Trigger Warning
The unexpected viral success of our podcast has revealed a disturbing truth: millions of people recognize the nightmare of narcissistic abuse. While gratified to reach so many, we're heartbroken that our stories resonate with such a vast audience.
This episode takes a dark turn as we explore the shocking reality of narcissistic retaliation. Dana shares a chilling recent incident where someone targeted her daughter Faith's medical insurance shortly after our podcast gained popularity—calling to cancel coverage for a child who nearly lost her life earlier this year. This perfectly demonstrates how narcissists operate: identifying your most vulnerable point and striking there deliberately, even years after you've escaped their direct control.
We dive deep into the ongoing nature of narcissistic abuse, revealing how going "no contact" often isn't the end but merely shifts the battlefield. From smear campaigns that isolate victims from family to intimidation tactics designed to remind you they're still watching, narcissists refuse to relinquish control easily. These aren't just petty annoyances—they're calculated psychological warfare designed to maintain power over your life.
The conversation turns deeply personal as we share our experiences with family estrangement, the pain of watching family gatherings happen without you, and the lifelong journey of healing from being told you're not "enough" by those who should love you unconditionally. We also address a heartfelt message from a listener questioning her strength, reminding everyone that survival itself is evidence of extraordinary resilience.
For anyone currently trapped in the fog of narcissistic abuse or struggling through its aftermath, know this: you're stronger than you realize, you deserve peace, and you're absolutely not alone. Join us next episode for a special Q&A where we'll answer your questions about narcissistic abuse, recovery, and our personal journeys.
Good evening and welcome to another episode of Narc. Narc, who's there? Help, I'm gasping for air. That's a mouthful. But wow, we are really getting a lot of attention with this series. I'm more than blessed to have Dana co-host this whole series with me. This is my ride or die and she's amazing and it breaks my heart how many people can feel it, what it is we're going through. But, holy Toledo, like crazy, crazy, I don't even know. I'm gonna say hey to Dana and let her talk for a second, because I haven't looked today, um, at the numbers but I've been in hi.
Speaker 2:We've been in the millions, though, which which baffles me too, and I agree with you. I mean, of course, when you do something, you set out to reach as many people as possible with the message, but it is also disturbing to know that so many people can relate to the things we've been through, whether it's a narcissistic spouse or ex you know, person you dated, or a parent or a sibling, or a friend, or whoever my gosh we were. I mean, it's kind of an epidemic in itself. So I'm glad that we can be here and be of help, but I just wish the world wasn't such a nasty place for so many of us.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. The first episode just on TikTok had just shy of 3 million. The second episode, as of now, had 3.5 million, and the third episode is just a few digits away from 2 million. Wow, as of right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, again I don't know what to say. I mean, I appreciate everybody listening, but I wish people didn't have to. This is not something we want people to endure, especially because you know, for you, you experienced I mean, I think everybody that experiences some sort of abuse, whether it's with a narcissist or not. There's the psychological aspect that you know. You can go decades into your life and still be dealing with it. You know, as I admittedly am, but you have experienced the severity of the physical end of it as well and you know, still, you know, have those same issues with your daughter, and just, it's just so. There are just no words to know that so many other people are going through this to some extent or another, because the psychological is bad enough without the sexual and the legal and the financial, and then, like you know, the physical and the lifelong effects of it, literally. I mean, what are we doing to each other? What happened to humanity?
Speaker 1:Right. And then, on top of it, the one thing I love is that they hear us tell them that they're not alone. Because they're not alone and people are reaching out to us, that the reach that this is going is just crazy. You know, when people are sending messages that they're so thankful for us and that it does feel like a verbal hug. I've had people say that they feel like we're verbally hugging them, which I've never heard that term. I love it. I think it's great. They feel like we're giving them a soft, verbal hug to let them know that they're not alone and that we have gone through this and you know that's. That's why we're doing this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's called validation. That's what that is, and and that's the thing about you and I is that we are both, fortunately, in positions where we are safe, we are protected and therefore we have nothing to lose by opening our mouths for everybody now. So that's what we're here to do is just expose it for what it is and say what other people may not be able to even really articulate themselves, so that they can understand it and hopefully avoid it in the future. But yeah, we're definitely here for everybody and glad to be. So what are we going to speak up about today, ma'am?
Speaker 1:I just have to put aside it and I'm going to be very cryptic. I'm not going to, and so I know you'll know who this is. So I've had retaliation on the NART NART who's there. I did let's see how cryptic I can be about it. So somebody called and tried to get Faith's insurance stopped.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a nice thing to do for a girl that needs medical attention as frequently as she does. That's great, that's phenomenal.
Speaker 1:A letter was left at my husband's place of employment that had our names on it and writing that I knew the moment I saw it and it was opened mail by the federal government that they opened and then they put it in this envelope and it said that I have to prove that Faith is in need of her insurance because they've been notified that she might not need it anymore, that they've been notified that she might not need it anymore. And anybody who has ever listened to us knows that we almost lost her so many times at the beginning of the year. Yes, and it also says that like we didn't notify them of a phone number change and address change and I was like, yes, I did, cause I take notes on everything, so I call and there, and then not only this, but the date of the letter is like weeks ago and the date of my interview is in like the next day. So I call a number and I'm on hold forever to get somebody and I'm like I need to change the phone number and address that you guys have on file so that when they call me for my interview, if they call the right number and I that you guys have on file, so that when they call me for my interview, they call the right number.
Speaker 1:And I was like I did not call and change this. And I said I don't understand how this got changed. You cannot change your number with them online. You have to call a number and talk to somebody directly. And so they were like, well, I said can I put a password on the account? No, and I was like, okay, well, how do I prevent this from happening again? And they said, well, when you called in, I was like it wasn't me and they said they provided your name, your social, your date of birth, your daughter's name, where she was born, your mother's's maiden name and changed your address and phone number and anyone who could call and say that they were you could do this. And I said could you tell me when this happened? And they told me, and it happened to be one week after the release of the narc-narc book.
Speaker 2:And that's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm sorry you had to experience that, but I think that if people don't understand yet how far and how I mean how cruel and vile narcissists can be, perfect example.
Speaker 2:That is a perfect example because I too have. I didn't actually even put it in my second book, but there was a circumstance when I was a teenager that I, for reasons of my own well-being and that of an unborn child that I was carrying, carrying, did not share with my mother and stepfather at the time. But I was also told that she had found out by calling and pretending to be me and it's. You know, I just I will never understand how people can do that, never mind to their own child, to put them in that kind of danger, but their grandchildren as well, or any other human being. Yeah, I mean faith because I I mean she's not even my kid, but I think I and thousands of other people were watching over last Christmas. While we were all baking cookies and baking hams, you were in a hospital, not even getting a break to have a bite of a sandwich.
Speaker 2:Never mind, could you afford one because of all of the costs of the. I mean, honestly, I lost track of how many surgeries she endured to keep her alive alive and we were all praying and hoping and it went on for months and she just got her last tube out and is finally free of that mess and we're all crossing our fingers that the worst is over. But to have the nerve to even if they have an issue with you, it's baseless anyway. But to mess with faith's medical care, she could literally, literally. I don't even want to say the word because I'm not going to put that energy in the universe, but that's disgusting, that is absolutely disgusting and I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this now thank you, but you know I, you know I told Michael I was like I can't wrap my head around why somebody would do this.
Speaker 1:Like I just can't, I can't understand. And he was like that's because you're not like them. And I said I understand that I'm not like them, but I don't get how someone could do this to an innocent child.
Speaker 2:You know, it's not about doing it to the child, it's about doing it to you. Because this is the thing about narcissists the good ones, the real special ones. They know where to get you. Where it hurts yep, they know. They're watching, they're listening all the while. They know what to do. And if something ever happened to faith, I'm pretty sure I'd be right behind you and your husband, but there there would be some hell to pay if something ever happened to that little girl. And let me tell you, I mean, that's that's.
Speaker 2:This is a good subject, though, because I I find it interesting and I I've had this in my own life, in my childhood home. You know, unfortunately you're a minor. They have control over you, legally and behind closed doors. I mean, let's be realistic. Up until what? 1994, when some Violence Against Women Act came out, Up until 1994, anything that happened behind closed doors was considered a family matter. Police didn't want to get involved. A woman couldn't file charges against her husband. So I mean, there I was growing up in this house. Child services look the other way, Police look the other way. They just figure out well, they'll deal with that on their own. They don't care, they didn't care. And when you finally get to be 18 and you get the heck out of there, or hopefully sooner. I couldn't, unfortunately, before 18.
Speaker 2:But they find different ways and it always is interesting to me, you know, when I'm 48 now and people will say, oh well, you know, I thought your mother, you know, was estranged. I thought your stepfather hasn't spoken to you in years. Yes, we have had no contact for years, years. Yet still to this day, they find random ways to affect me, just as it sounds like happened to you, without naming people. But that's the thing about it is that they cannot let go of that control.
Speaker 2:They will find a way to hurt you. They know how to hurt you and they got to get a little more creative. When you're not under their control, when, when you're not legally in their custody, when you're legally not married to them anymore, whatever it is, they will still find a way to hurt you, and they just know, they always know exactly how to specifically hurt you, and through you, it's your daughter. For most anybody it would be their child, but but specifically because of Faith's medical issues and her history, her very recent history, that's a disgusting and nasty thing to do. It's just vile. This goes well beyond the fact that they could even walk this earth without consequence is disgusting to me. Well, they knew she was in the hospital.
Speaker 1:They knew she was in the hospital. They knew, they knew she was fighting for her life. They knew that she wasn't supposed to make it, and still nothing. I mean not.
Speaker 2:No, because they don't care, right, they don't care. Anybody who was watching Facebook or TikTok or whatever, and watching the angst in your face when you were sitting bedside with that little girl back in December and January because it just went on and on for months Everyone that saw your husband sitting there talking about her condition, giving updates that had a heart, was teary-ed and wish they could be there to do more. So, yeah, for her own, for people that are biologically related to her to be able to turn their backs and then try to take away her medical care disgusting. So, um, I, I'm, I'm, I'm rarely speechless, but I don't know that I have much more to say about that, it's just and next thing, you know.
Speaker 1:Then they go and take it to his work. You know it's like come on now.
Speaker 2:I mean, but it's their way of saying we're watching and we know and we are still keeping track of you, because I've had stuff like a note show up on my car in some random place and it or a text message that says, oh, I didn't realize how close I was to you, and it's like you're looking around, like, oh, they're watching me still, even though we've had no contact for a while. It's just their way to intimidate, manipulate, which I don't know about where you are, but I know in the lovely state of Illinois. Here that is considered an act of abuse and that is something you can get a protection, an order of protection for if you go through the rigmarole, which is not often easy, as I found out the hard way, but it's scary and I don't think it's right to intimidate anyone. Anyway, when you're I mean I'm sure you as well as me, some of us that have been through some stuff where things have gotten very violent, even when you move on, even years later, you're looking over your shoulder. At certain places you have events that might be more public, or something like our books, and you're always wondering are they watching? Are they seeing this?
Speaker 2:Well, yes, because we see people on social media scoping out well, that's their friend. I know they're not on there for me trying to be my friend. I know they're aware of it. That means this one's aware of it, so it's just their way of letting us know they're still there in the background and I don't know why. Well, yeah, I agree with Michael. We don't want to be like them, we don't want to be able to understand them, but we have to be aware of how they work. And so this is important stuff to talk about, because I think a lot of people think that when you cut that relationship, when you cut ties, when you get that divorce, everything will be okay now because you've ended it. No, that's just the beginning of it, because that's like the worst thing you can do to a narcissist to say I'm cutting you off.
Speaker 1:That's when it usually gets really bad, and they just never stop, right, you know, they love to do the silent treatment where it's like I'm not talking to you, and they would literally be standing in front of me, dana, and then, like my bio dad, talk to my bio mom and say tell her I'm right here. You know, adolescent, you sound like I'm right here, you know. And then you're not going to speak to me. Okay, great. And I now I realize it's best gift, like, thank you for that. That was fantastic. Can I have more? But they don't want to see us succeed. They don't want to see us successful. And you know, the thing is is that my bio dad sees my husband numerous times. He physically saw him today and didn't even speak to him, didn't acknowledge him, look right at him, locked eyes with him, didn't acknowledge him, nothing, not a word, and it was just like. You know, it's so like now. It took me so long because now it's like I go back and I realize I'm not who you made me out to be. I'm not who you wanted me to be and you made me out to be this horrific person who deserved everything I got because I stayed, or my bad choice. Well, you know what? Here's what I have to say. You know, as a quote unquote father, you're supposed to teach me what is acceptable to have as a male in my life, and when you show me, oh, I'm gonna give you the silent treatment, or you know why? Can't I just be happy, do you? Don't want me happy after everything I've done for you? Okay, pack my bags here. We go for the guilt trip, you know?
Speaker 1:And then I get some stupid email. I don't know if you know this. I got an email that this was a while ago. It was years ago that I had left stuff. Their house, as we all know, is huge and I left stuff in the attic. We have four attics for prying out loud.
Speaker 1:I left stuff in the attic. They told me that I had less than a week to come and get it. I wasn't allowed there. Only my husband was, and in it was so much of Faith's baby stuff I mean things that she made me art, stuff like that and they had the room. They told me I could store stuff there. So I did, and that was my stupid fault. But you know what? They got rid of everything. They got rid of things that faith made them. Faith made me and you know what. The end of the day, I have faith. So you know what? And I have faith in more than one way.
Speaker 1:So when they're sitting there and they are going through this and you know he's about to be 80 and like, literally, you spend your time and you're and I know, you know I don't but you're spinning your wheels like wondering, you know, here's the thing I might have made some bad choices, but it was because I had bad directions. And if I I, you know I was given bad direction. He did not show me what was acceptable. My grandfather did, and I lost him in the most important part of my life, when I was 15. So, yes, I made some horrible choices, I made horrible decisions and you know what.
Speaker 1:But I'm here where I am today and I'm happy, and he's not. And I have a soulmate and he doesn't. He calls his a roommate, I call mine my soulmate, and there's so many different things and at the end of the day, I can put my head down and not be like you know what? How do I do this to someone I love? How can I hurt someone else I love so much? I don't even love them. I use them when it's, you know, advantageous for growth for myself, but I don't want anything to do with them unless they can do something for me. I don't do that. I mean, that's not who I am and that's not who I stand for, and that's definitely not who faith is. So faith tells me all the time.
Speaker 1:How did you raise me so different? And I said I give you everything they never give me. And that's what I did. I made sure you never had to go through the hell. I felt trapped in, like I felt like everything about me wasn't good enough, you know, like I was never going to be pretty enough, or I was never going to be talented enough, or whatever the case may be. I was never going to be enough. There's not a day that goes by I don't tell her I love her. There's not a day that goes by I don't tell her how proud of her I am and how talented she is and how amazing she is. And you know what. They could be sitting in their museum or whatever you want to call it. But you know what? She's got millions of followers. She's a published author. She has done amazing things. She is the inspiration to people across this world who line up asking her to interview them, and you know what? What have you got to say?
Speaker 2:to interview them and you know what? What have you got to say? Right, exactly, but again, they're just trying to get to you and I appreciate you pointing out the age, because I want people to understand that it's something that I have actually said out loud just to myself, because I'm here alone and I have nobody to talk to other than you sometimes and myself and my cat to talk to other than you sometimes and myself and my cat, but I'm like they're 50, they're 60, they're 70. Like these are people that should not be acting like 15 year old, petty high school, like it's. So nobody is better than anyone else, and so number one I want to say right, and that's the thing is that we've all made mistakes.
Speaker 2:When you were sitting there saying you didn't always make. The thing is, that's life, that's what it is to grow up. You make bad decisions, you make the wrong moves, but sometimes you make the right decisions and you learn as you go. But the key is learning, and part of that learning comes with growth and self-awareness, and I would like to think that most people would like to go on that path continually throughout their life. But there are some people, for whatever reason and honestly I mean I could go into analysis of their pasts and their upbringings, whatever and probably find it as well as you could to you know the psychological source of why they are stunted and what exactly happened to make them that way. But it is so sad to think that somebody is at 70, 80 years old, as the case is for us, still acting like a 12 year old, trying to like I'm going to get them back. I got to figure out another way to get them back, like, really you want to. Your last dying thought is going to be how to stick it to me more, but again, they find ways because they are intent on it.
Speaker 2:My mother and stepfather were not as overt as saying come and get all your crap because I didn't leave. I've learned to pack light. I've moved enough times where if I can throw it in a backpack I'm good, and if I don't need it I don't take it. But when my first book came out last year, it was about a month after my son showed up at my house with my baby blanket that my great-grandma had crocheted for me. My mother had had it and I guess she didn't want it in her house anymore. So I guess I should be grateful that she at least sent it back.
Speaker 2:But you want to know why she sent it back to give. I mean that gives a message that you're not my daughter anymore. I don't want you anymore, I am ridding of you. And when you grow up in circumstances like you and I have and you already feel worthless because you know, like in my house, I was told I was an accident, I was a mistake, never should have been born, all that stuff, I mean you want to talk about feeling worthless and not feeling like enough then to give me my baby blanket like an F you basically, and to have my son deliver it, really, really, but that hurt. I mean 47 years old and I cried because I knew my pictures, that my grandma told me all my pictures had come down you know how many years ago and I remember seeing that that's something they would do when I was an adult is if they weren't happy with me, my pictures would come down off the wall and I'd get the silent treatment like we're just gonna erase you because you weren't a good girl.
Speaker 1:You're a tax write-off.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, and I'm lucky I was even that. I think that's the only reason that my stepfather legally adopted me was so I could be a tax write-off, because when I was 12 years old I found out that he took out a life insurance policy on me. There wasn't enough room in the book for this, but it's very disturbing. I found out by accident and I'm like what is a 12-year-old need a life insurance policy for? Well, the way he was treating me and the way they were trying to get rid of me and it was only three years after that there were hands around my neck and I was being thrown downstairs. So it's kind of disturbing when your parents want you dead or I say parents, using the word very loosely they're supposed to be your parents but they want you dead. And then they're taking out life insurance policy so he could go get a brand new Corvette or something. Once they got rid of me like they wanted to. It's disgusting and sick, but still you know like had happened to you and like still happens to me.
Speaker 2:There's lies being spread, rumors being circulated, to the point that I barely have family left. I have. Maybe that I can count on one hand, the number of family members from both sides that actually still have contact with me. But you know, we're going into the holiday season come, you know well, halloween, I guess people don't get together. But Thanksgiving, christmas, you know, then you have Easter. After that I get to go on Facebook and watch my families getting together and it's like I never even existed, it's like they were just able to do away with me, and that doesn't help a person feel any less worthless.
Speaker 2:So you know, if anybody else out there can relate, just know that this is the intent of the narcissist. If you do not let them control you, if they are disapproving of you in any way, they will hurt you, they will go at you. This is called a smear campaign and to the most extreme extent it's called nuking. But it's terrible that we even use like military warfare, political warfare, verbiage to describe what they do to other people. Like, just go on with your life and move on like I am, like I'm not talking to you, I'm not reacting, I'm not even defending the lies anymore because I'm over it. If people want to think that I'm the villain, if they want to think these terrible things about me, let them. Let them, because the people who really know me know that none of that is true or they would care enough about me to come to me and say I heard this. Do you want to explain and give me an opportunity to do that? But they don't, because they're buying into the BS.
Speaker 2:And these narcissists, I hate to tell y'all, but they are convincing. They are really, really good at what they do. They can put on an act. I mean, why do you think we married some? I mean that Ted Bundy was charming and handsome. We weren't going out on the street looking for Chucky with his little butcher knife and his crazy red hair. Right, nothing against redheads, I love I was gonna.
Speaker 1:I love you, you know, but you think about it and when you get to that age you're like in your late 70s and whatever. You always heard that they revert back to like a toddler sense where they, you know.
Speaker 1:So you know, like, stop my foot and that's the thing, and you know I still pray for them every single night. I do. I do, I pray for my abusive ex and his family every night because you know everybody said to me how do you still have a smile on your face? And it's because I was kept here and faith was kept here and it was for a reason and I truly believe it's to be here with you and to advocate and to show people that you can get over it. It's not a competition.
Speaker 1:How many times you've been hit, you know, god forbid the time you've been hit just once you're in our circle. I mean mean that's. You know how I see it and I just I know that revenge is not mine to give and I heard that so many times and I truly believe in my heart. Like we have one heart and we can either fill it up with love, happiness, laughter and joy, or we can let it just become black like theirs, and I'm not going to do that. And so I really just and I'm still human and I repent.
Speaker 1:My sin and I will say that right now is, you know that the fact is is that if something happens, I just don't want to hear about it, but I will not be involved in you know I'm not going to have my hand in it to say you know, I mean, these are people who up down one side of the other, would tell you that they're Jewish all day long, but they celebrate Christmas and he wears a high and he you know just everything about it is I'm Jewish, I'm Jewish. Do you own a menorah, do you? Yeah?
Speaker 2:you know, we have that in common.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know like faith told him one day you better hurry up and put a cereal bowl over your head. Nobody's gonna believe that you own a yarmulke, like you know. And then that's just it. It it really is.
Speaker 1:When I was coming up with the cover of the book for nart nart, it was literally like I have to make it, where people just go wow, because when you hear from so many people that you are the bad person and that you've done all these horrible things but, like you don't have a clue that your sperm and egg donor take the person that beat you to death, storm all on one occasion, not only do they take him on a vacation while you and your daughter are in the ICU and pay for everything, but then you find out they put him in my life to begin with and pay for everything, but then you find out they put him in my life to begin with.
Speaker 1:So, with that being said, just the book itself had to be, the cover had to be like most people just don't have a clue. They see, they, they see what they want to see, they hear what they hear and that's what it is. And that's where it stops. They never say hey, dana or Victoria, why don't you, you know, tell us your side of this, or what really happened, or whatever? And even with all the proof and all the evidence and everything else, some people are still going to believe them. And if that's the case, you know what? Get in your boat, go to your own private Island and you know, to have a day.
Speaker 2:No, I agree with you, and that's why I've gotten a lot of flack from people. You know, even my husband has said he's like you are the sweetest, warmest, most loving person. But he says I don't understand how you can. You can cut somebody off without a second thought, without, I mean, you don't even think twice about it, and I'm like I've unfortunately had to learn in my life to cut it off and let it go.
Speaker 2:You know, I have to be quick about it, because when somebody proves who they are or what side they're on and I'm not about taking sides necessarily, but I think when a line is drawn and you clearly side with the person that has tried to kill me or intentionally harmed me in some way, you're sure as crap not on my side and I don't deal with people who dance between the line and play the fence like that. There is no, I'm not taking sides, crap. No, the second you continue to associate with them, you are enabling their behavior, you are excusing that behavior, you are invalidating everything I have been through. So I'm good, I will move on and I will cut you off and I will never speak to you again. I will be polite, you know, like you, I will hello in public whatever if I have to, but I'm done with you.
Speaker 2:I'm over it, and I don't care if you're biologically related or not. When that line is drawn, you got to pick a side. There's no playing two sides on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do want to say to everybody and I'm going to have to start putting a lot of the responses that I get over to Dana so we can both talk about this but I want people to know that you know, yes, I get. We've had so many people come out and say it is so hard. Nobody understands.
Speaker 2:We understand because we've been there.
Speaker 1:You know we totally get it. But I want there was this one lady who did not use her name when she wrote. It was just, um, it was an unusual screen name or whatever in her message and she didn't say her name. But by the way she was writing, I would say maybe she's in our age group but she is having she's in the very beginning of this, like she's having a really hard time and she doesn't think she's very strong. And I'm here to tell you that, um, you're stronger than you know because, yeah, they pick us. They pick us as the black sheep because they put everything on us. They put it on us and we are really.
Speaker 1:What these idiots don't realize, these narcissistic morons don't realize, is that we're the ones who know the truth and we're the ones that they really should be afraid of because we can expose them. But they try, try to train us, not to. They try to. You know, it took me until I was in my forties to realize that I wasn't the one who was doing everything wrong, like he said I was. You know, like he sneezed and I said bless you and I would get pinched. I'm like, why do I say that? Why do? I say bless you when you sneeze Like.
Speaker 1:I should just stop and you really are so much stronger than you know and you just need to revert that strength and turn it around a little bit and realize that you survived and I say this all the time when I'm speaking engagements. You survived 100% of your worst days. And they can't say that because if they could, you wouldn't be their crutch. They are so unhappy in their life. They're miserable humans. I don't even like putting them in that category. There's such unhappy creatures that they want to spread their unhappiness, because misery loves company.
Speaker 1:But the strength you have from within to cut them out of your life, or if they cut you out of their life, the point is you need to remember is that you're continuing to have them no longer in your daily life. So that makes you a lot stronger than you have any idea, and kudos to you for that, because I can tell you I went back dozens and dozens of times begging for their forgiveness for shit I didn't even do. You know. They were mad at me and not speaking to me for whatever reason, and I fell on the sword just to get them to forgive me for what I was being blamed for, that I wasn't even a part of, and so for you to literally just take a moment and realize that if they did cut you out of their life because this reader, like she, sent me, not subconsciously and I would love to hear Dana's take on this is that subconsciously you might not have shut them out, but you subconsciously have locked them out and you are protecting yourself and you are getting stronger and stronger because of it, because you are getting away from it and, even though you might not have been the one to say I'm done and walk away, you've kept them away and you've locked that door and you didn't go back and say I'm sorry for stuff you didn't do.
Speaker 1:And that shows such strength and admiration and I am inspired by exactly what you're doing because you don't realize that that takes a lot of guts, it takes a lot of strength, and I am so proud to even have been someone that you chose to write to and I would love if you would write me back and tell me it's okay for me to share it with Dana because I didn't pass it to her just because I'm so big on the confidentiality when I work with people on domestic violence. So I keep it very confidential and that's why I didn't give any of her personal information, but I would love for her to read it. It was so heartfelt and so loving. But I mean, do you agree that, like she needs to realize her strength in this?
Speaker 2:This is what I equate it to when I tell people because I always said I never asked to be strong, I never thought I was that strong. People still tell me I'm strong and all this stuff and I'm like no, I just didn't have a choice. Because if I saw my kids strapped to a railroad track and a train coming, I'm pretty sure I would turn into Superwoman and do things at lightning speed to save my son's life. And when you're in these situations, I think that people, until they're in them, don't really get what survival means. They think survival like the reality show Survivor, like you're in a jungle and you're trying to make sure a snake doesn't stick you with poisonous venom and that you have water for how many days? No, survival is too often here in the freedom of the United States of America, behind the closed doors of our own homes, where we're supposed to be the most safe and secure. And especially when you're a kid and those are your parents who are supposed to keep you, protect you, make sure you have shelter, food, nurture you, all these things, and you are basically left to fend for yourself, literally for life or death. And then you're that scared little girl that's afraid of people. But you grow up and trust another man and then you end up in another situation where you're being abused left and right but you're being gaslit this time because everything you think, you're told you don't is not real. That didn't happen that way.
Speaker 2:I never said that you took it wrong. You're sensitive. Happen that way. I never said that you took it wrong. You're sensitive, you're crazy, all these things. And then we start to doubt ourselves. There's that crazy making. So by the time you kind of open your eyes and think maybe it's not me, maybe it's them, then they start really working you. So if you don't already think everything is your fault and that you are the problem, they're going to work harder to make you feel that way, except once you really take those rose colored glasses off and see it. You can't unsee it. And then there's a little resistance and there's this push and pull, and for me it went on for 15 years until I finally pulled the plug on it, but not without getting to the point where he actually was planning to kill me and he wanted me dead. And even after the divorce it got the most violent.
Speaker 2:So what people need to understand it's not about being strong. Don't label. You know how I love labels. Don't label yourself. Just get through the next five minutes, then get through the next hour and do what you need to do to take care of you. Keep yourself safe, protect yourself. If you have children, animals, whatever else, do what you can do. If you want to call that strong, call it strong. You want to call it something else, call it something else. But everybody is in that situation just trying to survive, and that's what that really is, but I'm going to go so far.
Speaker 2:One more thing just to tag on to that, because it was my initial feeling when you started telling this story, about this letter, and I probably talked about this before. But I remember as a teenager even just I remember saying it to my great grandma that I think one of the hardest things in life, one of the worst feelings to have, is to find out that you loved somebody or were more invested in a relationship than they were, whether that's family, romantic, whatever because that's betrayal when they betray your trust, when they betray your heart. That way, it's hard not to feel like there's something wrong with you, like you think it must be me, because I did everything. I love them with all my heart. I, I, whatever it is, but they still. I wasn't enough for them. And you start to generalize it and think, if I wasn't enough for them, then I'm not enough for any everybody. And and we have to stop doing that to ourselves because it's such a disservice and we had a little bit of a conversation on another subject before this, but it speaks to this very well is that we have to remind ourselves we may not be enough for some people. I will never in my entire life, no matter what I could literally come down from the heavens and be proclaimed God or Jesus here on earth. And it will not be enough for my mother to be proud of me. She wants nothing to do with me. I'm good now. I accept that. Well, thank you. But I'm saying like people need to get past this not being good enough for that person, because I don't want to have to try to prove myself. If somebody truly loves me, cares about me, even just likes me as a friend, I'm going to be enough, I'm going to be just right. And there's going to be people.
Speaker 2:I've been told by people oh, you're too much, you're too loud, you're too outspoken, I'm too this. Well, you know what Then? We're not the right people, but there are the right people. They come up, those are your people and the world goes round because there are all kinds of people with all kinds of different qualities. You just have to find the ones. It's kind of like we talked about puzzles before. You're a puzzle piece. You just got to find out where you fit. And you're not going to fit sometimes in the places, and I think this is why I know for me but I think a lot of people can relate why sometimes we get so depressed about it is that I don't belong with my family, I don't belong with my husband's family, I don't belong here or there or wherever, because we don't belong in the places that I guess society or we dictate to ourselves where we should belong, where we're supposed to organically fit. We think something is wrong with us. But you know, sometimes you just have to look in the mirror and say maybe I'm just that special and I just fit with my extra special puzzle people, because they're out there and we have to remind ourselves too.
Speaker 2:For those of us who are faithful, one of the things that helped keep me in perspective when I was trying to get past this idea of not being enough for my mother and not being enough for my stepfather and then my ex-husband, and like almost everybody I've come across in my life, is that I am a child of God. I'm not my mother's child. She gave birth to me. I am thankful that, for whatever reason, she kept me alive very minimally, but she did, and that I am here. But I am God's child now. I am not necessarily hers. She does not possess me in any way. So I am here to do his will, to do his work, and that's why we're here trying to help other people that have been in these situations.
Speaker 2:But nobody is ever alone. Nobody should ever, ever feel like they're not enough, and it makes my heart sad because I am one of those people. I am still working on it. So so believe me when I say I get it and I have my days and I still cry, in fetal position sometimes, because we are all human and we feel and we hurt and things remind us of that pain.
Speaker 2:But you got to stand up and smile and say you know what, though? There's nothing wrong with me, because really I'm not alone. Let me scroll through my phone and see all these people. You know I can always count on Victoria here to be the you're amazing and, hey, beautiful, and all this and I'm like, oh, I just want to put her in my pocket and take her home, you know, because I need that cheerleader. But we all have those people. We just don't focus on them because we are so focused on the people that don't want us, the people that reject us. Stop looking for reasons to reject yourself. Go to the other side. You know it's the side thing. I do hate picking sides, but you got to side with yourself once in a while. We all need to. Sorry for that little monologue, but it's so important. No, I love it.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be in her pocket, like I always send her messages and I'm like, hey, how's your day's like? And Faith, of course, is now swearing up and down that this is her, her aunt, like I can't have a conversation and she's like I'm telling Aunt Dana. I'm like go tell Aunt Dana. She's like I'm gonna tell her right now. Like you want my phone, you go tell her, you know. So I, I love that. But uh, I wanted to ask how do you feel about our next session? Is that we I've been putting together a list of questions that we've been getting that we do a Q&A session? I love that.
Speaker 2:I love it. We've got a lot.
Speaker 1:So anybody who has any questions, either ask myself, ask Ms Dana, and we'll put them all together and on the next one we will answer all of these questions that we're getting all together and on the next one we will answer all of these questions that we're getting. I figured we would wait till we got enough to do a whole session on Q&A and I think that will be great, I do.
Speaker 2:That would be amazing. I love that. I love that because we want to definitely answer questions specifically to what people want to hear and anything about narcissism, abuse, domestic violence, something specific to Victoria, to me, if you've read either one of our books and have a question about a book, about a scenario, we are more than happy to answer that. We are both obviously very open and unfiltered. Yeah, we're definitely unfiltered.
Speaker 1:Thank you, guys, so much for tuning in, and in our next session we're going to do the Q&A. Yay, that'll be fun. Thank you for being with me. Again, I'm going to go jump back in your.
Speaker 2:Please do, bye, bye.
