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A Contagious Smile Podcast
A Contagious Smile is a powerful platform dedicated to uplifting and empowering special needs families and survivors of domestic violence. Through heartfelt stories, we shine a light on the journeys of extraordinary individuals who have overcome unimaginable challenges. Their triumphs serve as a testament to resilience and strength, inspiring others to rediscover their own inner light. Each episode features candid interviews with survivors, advocates, and experts who provide valuable resources and insights to support those on their own paths to healing and empowerment. Join us as we celebrate the power of resilience, the beauty of shared stories, and the unstoppable spirit of those who turn adversity into hope. Let us guide you in rekindling your spirit, because every smile tells a story of courage and transformation.
A Contagious Smile Podcast
Surviving the Narcissist's Web Trigger Warning
When a narcissist targets you for abuse, they reserve a special kind of cruelty that no one else sees. This powerful episode pulls back the curtain on narcissistic abuse through raw, firsthand accounts that validate what countless survivors experience behind closed doors.
Dana and her co-host courageously share their personal journeys through narcissistic relationships, revealing how these master manipulators present a charming face to the world while systematically destroying their victims' sense of reality, self-worth, and safety. They discuss Dana's revealing book "Narc Narc, Who's There?" which documents through text messages, emails, and photographs the calculated manipulation narcissists employ.
The conversation explores how narcissistic abuse escalates gradually, testing boundaries until victims become accustomed to increasingly harmful behavior. "It's interesting how they see what they can get away with," one host explains. "It's like dipping your toes in the water... Every time they do something they just go, they just put their toe just over that edge to where they know it's going to poke at you a little."
Particularly moving is their discussion of the physical toll this trauma takes—from eating disorders that persist decades later to the physical pain of simply writing about past experiences. The hosts don't shy away from addressing how narcissistic parents devastate children's development, with alarming statistics showing that 38% of all US children experience at least one incident of domestic violence or abuse before age 18.
Despite the heavy subject matter, the episode offers genuine hope. Both hosts have not only survived but built fulfilling lives after narcissistic abuse. Their message to listeners still trapped in these relationships is clear: healing is possible, you deserve better, and you're not alone in this fight. As one host powerfully states, "We survived it. We are living beautiful lives now. You don't have to stay in that muck."
Good afternoon and welcome to another episode of our series Knock, Knock. Who's there? Help me. I'm gasping for air. Dana is co-hosting with me again today. She has been a little under the weather, so we're wishing her great wishes and speedy recovery. And I'm just going to start out saying oh my God, I've been reading your book.
Speaker 2:Well, I finished your book and I'm going to say oh my God, too, for anybody that hasn't, because I've heard the stories, I've seen the evidence that you've shared with me prior to the book's release.
Speaker 2:But that's a big. There was a lot of oh my God moments in it, because it's just stuff that you would not. I mean, I believe you because I know you and I trust you and I know you wouldn't say anything that wasn't true. But when you see it, I mean, and it's right in front of you in text messages and emails and pictures oh my God, Like you, just can't believe that somebody would be so calculated and so disgusting and so manipulative and cruel and all the things that these narcissists are in our lives, you know, really, in fact are. People don't see it though. People don't see it because they save all that stuff for that one special person, or maybe there's a special few, and we have been so fortunate as to experience that multiple times over in our lives. But that is why we're here and why we now have the gift of knowledge to share with everybody.
Speaker 1:Right, and not to mention and you've seen some of the photos of grandpa at the table with another woman in front of faith and you could tell by a woman that's not his wife in front of his granddaughter on purpose, by the way being fed. And then there's one where I don't know how you can misconstrue it that. Could you tell that there was one where there was some kissing going on?
Speaker 2:yeah, there was. I'm a big body language person, you know, because I studied communications in college, kind of went with psychology and all that, and so nonverbal sometimes says more than verbal and I notice verbiage. But I also notice people, the way they sit, with the way they touch their body positioning, if they're turned away, if they're leaned in comfortably. He I think when I had texted you I had said something about those, all of those pictures he was way too comfortable, much more than he should be. If this was just somebody he knew. That is like to me.
Speaker 2:There are certain parts of the body and certain ways you sit with people that express an intimacy that is saved for, like you're my best friend, you're my sister, you're my husband or wife, not everybody else, and he just seems like he liked ladies, obviously, but the fact that he used, pointedly, intentionally used, your daughter, who has been through hell and back as you have, medically, physically, and to use all that to his advantage to create opportunities and to even go so far as to engage with the professionals that were medically caring for either of you. I mean, the man has no bounds. So if anyone has not picked this up yet, you can see right behind her as part of the cover, which is amazing, but please get Narc. Narc, who's there? I mean, it's just, it's unbelievable, but it's there. The truth is there and you can't not believe it.
Speaker 1:Right, and you know I heard such a great quote. It's like why are you trying to silence us if we're lying, right Like. If we're lying and cause, they make us out to be liars and we're crazy and we're nuts and whatever. But if we're lying about who you are and what you're doing, why are you trying to keep us quiet? Right, right, why. Why are you trying to, like, keep us from speaking?
Speaker 1:But now that she totally railroaded me but I like I was saying her book, oh my god, like michael will look at me and he'll be like, hey, I'm reading, like you know he's like, but you know, and her book, even before chapter one starts, right out the gate and it's. I'm not even gonna give any little tidbit, nuggets, nothing. All I'm gonna say is like when your mom started seeing your stepdad, like right off the bat because even right in the beginning you didn't say his name in the very first part I was like, oh, I don't like this bastard. And you know I didn't like the other one prior to him. But like I'm looking and I'm reading this and I was like, okay, I know this has to be him, but I'm reading and I'm like, oh, what a prick. Like I'm reading this and you know, and I'm listening, and you know I'm listening to you and we talk and I think about all the stuff you've said to me and it is in such detail. I feel like I'm sitting there looking at a window, just trying to break the window, to get through the glass, to get to you, to pull you out, like that's how great she is at writing, her writing is phenomenal and you just literally I feel like I'm sitting there and I cannot get through to help get this beautiful little girl out of that environment. Which is what I see and feel when I'm reading this. And oh, I'm reading this about your stepdad and I'm like what, jerk? I wasn't about to use that word, but it was just horrible, horrible, horrible. And your mother, you know it's just and I'm not anywhere near halfway through yet. I cannot wait to I get back to this. It's like my time, you know, in there is to read and it's just seriously.
Speaker 1:You know she talks about how NARTNARC is. You know, got all this stuff going on, but I put myself if you haven't been in a situation, good for you, god bless you, and if you have, god bless you twice as much, because you're in your own hell, like when people have asked me when I'm speaking in engagements. What is it like? I tell them. It's like being an asthmatic in a room with no windows or doors, full of chain smokers Cause you can't breathe, like you just can't breathe. You are literally right. And the way Dana does this is it literally feels like you are right there at the moment with this beautiful, beautiful, heart-filled, gorgeous little girl who is wanting nothing but love. And that is heart-wrenching for me. To continue to read this because I love her and you know I love her as the person she is. I didn't know her back then, but to even go back and read when you were little, little, little, like you were needing that parental guidance, that parental love and not the judgment.
Speaker 1:And then I'm reading cause her and I swear you think we were cut at the cloth because our stories are so much similar and her grandmother like the cooking and all that I mean it's so like authentic and you can almost feel everybody getting together for food and having a good time and just you know, you are so amazing as a writer.
Speaker 2:Well, I appreciate that, but I can't take full credit. I went to school for journalism and you know my personality. I'm very direct. Yes, I'm one of. I'm a a very blunt. I would be good at writing news stories and just saying what it is. But this this creating environments and characters and being able to put you there has been the hugest challenge for me, but it's also being coached to do it and basically pushed by my publisher and and she I thank her a million times over. If Alexa is listening to me and not my Amazon Echo one cause she always thinks I'm talking to her, I'm talking to my publisher. You know, the hard part in this ties into a lot of the issues that we've had as having been victims and now survivors, you know, of narcissistic abuse or any abuse or trauma. Is that our bodies still hold that trauma.
Speaker 2:So, having to go back in my mind, into my memories and like think, okay, what did I see? What was I wearing? What was I? You know what was the color of the walls? What were the? You know the 1950s cabinets, those white ones with those metal handles, and you know those big. You know what were they iron or porcelain. You know all these things. You're trying to imagine the wallpaper. You know the flare-legged pants you wore, with the really long pockets back in the 70s or 80s, if you're from that era. But it's like I'm remembering the details, but I'm also my body is remembering the feelings.
Speaker 2:So my throat does close up and I can't breathe and I get sweaty and oftentimes, especially writing that book, I had often said it broke me and I hate using that verbiage and that language about myself, but it did. Oftentimes, especially writing that book. I had often said it broke me and I hate using that verbiage and that language about myself, but it did. The days I would be in bed with migraines and stomach aches after having written a scene. I just couldn't. But I am grateful that why we do what we do.
Speaker 2:I know some people that can't grasp the concept of humanity and doing for others think it's just out of vengeance or trying to make people look bad, and it's not at all why we do what we do. We write our books, we share our stories. We come on these podcasts to share what we have experienced, so that other people know that we're there with you and we believe you because nobody believed us, that we're there with you and we believe you because nobody believed us and we too at one point thought this was just happening in us. Nobody else could possibly be experiencing this. Because if you almost start gaslighting yourself, doubting yourself, like there's no way, like this can't be happening, maybe I'm misunderstanding something. Maybe it because nobody else sees this person that way. Nobody else sees the monster that I'm seeing. They don't treat other people this way.
Speaker 2:But that's also where you start internalizing the shame and that that crazy making, that self-doubt gets established. And then they're more effective when they're gaslighting you and manipulating and and this confusion about who you are and who they are and what your reality even is. No wonder they think we're nuts, because it is a lot to negotiate. I mean and imagine doing that when you're four or five years old, nevermind 40 or 50 and every age in between. It's a freaking mind F. Forgive me for saying it, but every person I've ever talked to about narcissism that has experienced the severity of its abuse. That is the one word we can all definitively agree upon. That is the first word that defines narcissistic abuse is the mind F.
Speaker 2:That is what it is.
Speaker 1:It is, it is a million percent. And you know, you go back and you think about, like we go back so many times as a survivor of abuse and they say we go back to our attacker. Well, I realize I didn't go back to idiot, I went back to my parents, you know, and they were my first yeah, you know, they were my first and I go back and look and look and look and think about all this no-transcript, this horrific person that doesn't care about anybody but themselves. We get, quote, unquote ownership to all of their mistakes, because they cannot do anything wrong, nor could they ever genuinely apologize. They could be on fire and they're still not going to apologize. It doesn't matter, it's beneath them and they're not going to do it. They think they are holier than now and it's just. Everybody owes them. And it was like with Faith, he made it seem like, you know, if he wanted, if she wanted, five minutes with him, she owed him because his time was worth more, you know, and that's horrific.
Speaker 2:You, you know that's narcissism, though Narcissists feel entitled, they are entitled in their mind and the irony is is that some of them actually do feel entitled, like your father, my stepfather. There are those textbook narcissists that truly do think they are better than everyone else and deserve to be treated as such. They are the exception to every rule. But then there are some, like my ex that, those covert narcissists that actually are so tiny, itty bitty, insecure inside that they just put on the air of entitlement and arrogance, so you know, kind of hoping to receive the same reflected back towards them, because they need that, their ego needs that. So it's very interesting, but at the end of the day, they all work in some similar way. They do the same things, they say the same things, they all work, and that's the one thing that anybody that has anything to say in the field of narcissism and that you and I have agreed on. It's all the same. That's why you see on social media, on podcasts, everything. It might be a different situation, different person, different circumstances, but it's the same crap over and over and over, over and over, which for us is a good thing, because you and I are now older and wiser and we see this stuff well before it's coming and we can't be fooled anymore, whereas you know like, for me, I had the king of all narcissists that was raising me and then I married a covert. Because it hit me differently, sensed it, knew it wasn't right, felt the same, couldn't be sure. It just hit me differently while I learned my lesson and I don't know, they say there's, I see, different things, there's five different nurses, there's 20 different nurses.
Speaker 2:I don't care how many number of narcissists are there. An a-hole is an a-hole. That's what I say at the end of the day, and abuse is abuse. So if something, if somebody is intentionally harming you and the key is intention take it for what it is. But if you want to be in that kind of relationship and I'm sorry, believe me, I'm sorry if it's your mother or God forbid your kid or whoever, it sucks, I know, I know too well, you know, yeah, yeah, but it's not good for you, it's not good for your mind, it's not good for your physical health. Toxicity has to be cut out like a tumor.
Speaker 1:Have you ever listened to the Dr Laura show?
Speaker 2:Every now and then. I know you have a good story about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know I'm not going to tell this story, but I listen, I listen to her every now and again and I'm dumbfounded because she's supposed to be like PhD, you know really. But then she's like there's no such thing as a narcissist. People throw that word around so many times. You know, if you're the, you're the child of someone you think is a narcissist, you need to go make amends because you don't know how long they're going to be here on the planet. And it's like they're the parent. And I think this way, regardless of what she says. If they're the parent and we're the child, I don't care if we, as you and I, and we are parents ourselves. Yes, we're still their child, unfortunately, and they should do right and come to us and they're the ones who made this bet and they're choosing to not make things correct. And you know, at the end of the day, like with the revolving door of my quote-unquote father, I mean, it's just like revolving door women, but who's going to take care of them at the end, when no one's around, right, like who's going to be there, this man can't boil water for himself. And yet you just think, oh, okay, well, I'm just going to keep that door open and that door open and let these women come through.
Speaker 1:And I mean you read these emails that I put in there, like from my best friend that I knew since preschool and her sister. But they had different last names because mom had remarried and took the last name and then when the sister was born it was her half sister. She took the name of her dad and he bad mouthed her and had no idea. But they grew up coming over to my house like you know, and he was like oh, you know, have you seen you got mail? Yeah, it's just you know. And then I realized I go back and think about like I used to apologize for other people's behavior that would set him off and what he would do to me. When someone did something to him I would get silent treatment and it would be so obvious.
Speaker 2:I mean imagine.
Speaker 1:Imagine being somewhere and he would be like tell her this, I'm standing three feet away. He wouldn't even look at me, talk to me nothing. Tell her this for me. And I'm like do you know how dumb you sound right now? I'm standing across from you, like you're not even going to.
Speaker 2:I didn't even get that, but I did. There were that brought to mind multiple situations for me and I'm talking not just in my childhood, as an adult, when we were still in contact because somebody I knew not even like a friend, I think it was like a friend's husband, who happened to be a contractor, so like I had nothing to do with it, it wasn't part of the, but somebody had said something about him that he didn't like but I was paying the price for it. I think it was three weeks at that point of silent. But I didn't get silent treatment where he spoke around me, passive, aggressively, third party it was, and I want people to understand, cause I know you got this type too. When I got silent treatment it was, I mean, I well, I don't know if you've gotten there in the book. There's a time or two where I get in my mother's face Like I am screaming every profanity just to provoke her to just look at me, Just look at me and see me. See me Acknowledge my presence.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Nothing, zombie face, no words, not even a flinch in the eye, won't even meet my eye contact. So when I got silent treatment and I'm talking from the time I was a little, little little girl, five years old maybe. Oh, my God, I mean to feel to make a child. If you are such a disgusting adult human being, If you are such a disgusting adult human being that can make a child feel like they literally do not exist and that they are not even worthy of common courtesy, of I don't know putting a plate of dinner for them at the table or talking to them. I mean weeks, weeks, weeks. And they called me crazy and sensitive and overly emotional when I would be in my room and fetal position, crying, wondering why the hell I was even existent, wishing as a little girl that maybe I just didn't live anymore.
Speaker 1:And we didn't ask to come onto this life. You know people need to remember that like we were a result of an action. You know?
Speaker 2:exactly. Well, but that's the whole premise, and you'll get there if you haven't gotten already. Choking on shame and that was the whole thing with my mother is that she, she, didn't want kids and here I was. And so she's still, to this day, and I'm 48 years old. To this day, she will not take accountability for having willingly participated in the act that created my existence. And it's just like I'm here, I'm like I have a kid of my own, like I mean, let it go. You know, open your legs. You made me. Forgive me anyone if I'm here, I'm like I have a kid of my own, like I mean, let it go, you know, open your legs, you made me. Forgive me anyone if I'm being crude, but I mean, this is how I feel I need to be because it's I mean, at some point okay, maybe you didn't intend for it to happen Teenage pregnancies happen.
Speaker 2:I, I, I get it, but gosh darn, I mean to diminish an entire human being and steal the opportunity, especially when there are so many people in this world number one who cannot have children, that would love any child to raise and love as their own, that would love to add to their family of biological children or adopted children. I mean, I honestly grew up and being orphan Annie. I loved that movie because I thought, gosh, if I could even live in an orphanage and have all those you know non biological sisters that we can sing and dance, and because I was a singer and a dancer and I just thought what a wonderful life that would be. I could even put up with Mrs Hannigan, like she didn't bother me any. She was nothing compared to what I know.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly, yeah, I watched sleeping with the enemy and I'm like that's the best they got, like they think this is so scary. You know, like dun dun dun, the cans are facing the one direction and I'm like that's a 2am on a Monday for me.
Speaker 2:That's like exactly. But you know what the saddest part is when we're talking about child abuse, because I think, and for anybody that's listening that really doesn't buy into the narcissism thing, just take the narcissism out of it. Narcissistic abuse was when a narcissist abuses you, but it's still physical abuse, verbal, emotional, psychological, sexual, sometimes. You know, find it. There's so many different types of abuses and abuse is abuse and you cannot deny that. I don't care who's abusing you, but what people don't get and this is statistics from.
Speaker 2:I should have actually written it down, but this is our own government putting the statistic out that 38% of all US children currently have experienced at least one incident, at least one incident of domestic violence or abuse before the age of 18. And then they say more than half of all US children have experienced more than that. That that's not okay with me at all. Right, and I mean we can. We can arguably remove some things that are. I mean I hate to say that something isn't abuse, because if somebody is affected and hurt by something, I mean I don't want to be one of those people that diminishes anything that's not physical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you're not one of those people.
Speaker 2:I'm not, but I want to be sensitive to somebody who might be listening. But aside, even if you pull out the things that might be, you know, that are teetering on the edge of whether they could really be considered abuse and whether it's just somebody being a little too sensitive, as I have often been accused of being, I feel like that number is still way too high, because that many children in as large of a country as we are should not be experiencing this much trauma. And then we wonder that the direct correlation to the incidence of depression, the incidence of anxiety, that this is suicide prevention awareness month. I mean, what happens when people are suicidal? Everyone thinks it's a mental health issue. No, it's not a mental health issue. I will argue that all day long and I will have doctors tell me I'm wrong. It is a sadness and loneliness issue. It is people who, honestly, have been just exiled, banished, diminished, made to feel insignificant, so much so that they feel that they are alone, even though there might be people in their life that care very much about them and would do anything to make sure they didn't feel that way.
Speaker 2:The people primarily responsible, namely parents, siblings, spouses, kids, whatever people close to you are making them feel like they don't matter. Yeah, absolutely. That is not mental health. That is a problem with the way people treat each other, and I don't blame people. I have been one of those people. Even this year, I have had an issue where I just felt like I just don't want to feel this hurt and this pain anymore, and so I understand when somebody gets to that point. But this isn't just, like I said, about narcissistic abuse or depression or mental health or suicide. It all goes together and so we can't ignore it, and so I want people to listen more openly. Even if you haven't experienced narcissistic abuse or any abuse yourself, please don't underestimate what somebody tells you or the things that we're saying or the statistics, because it's very real and it's very prevalent in this world. You know, even looking at romantic relationships, they say one in four women or, I'm sorry, one in four men and one in three women are in a toxic relationship.
Speaker 1:The numbers are higher in the military by the way, numbers are higher.
Speaker 2:Yes, and among the police forces and such, and you unfortunately know this too well and you know that kind of goes along with the death rates 38 percent. It's the same number as the child abuse. 38 percent of all women murdered All women murdered are murdered by their partner. Yeah, why would any woman want to go out on a date? Oh my God.
Speaker 1:And when you try to be the most dangerous that is the most dangerous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. The two most domestic violent incidents that I had with my ex happened after our divorce. So, like I told my son, it was just a piece of paper that separated our finances. It's not in that relationship, because if there was a piece of paper for that boy, I would have had that done first. I don't care about the finances.
Speaker 1:Right? No, absolutely, and you know it. What really got to me, dana, is it like imagine, you know, I tell people, close your eyes and imagine being eight years old and having your mother say I wish I had miscarried you, I wish that you know you were the one I miscarried, and that's horrible. And then you know, when Faith was born, we were in the NICU for months and months and months. I said she wouldn't make it. I became very close with the chaplain and she was coding every day. She had seizures every day. We ended up tracheologically dependent and they were a mile and a half from the hospital. Like in order to go anywhere they had to pass on the main street and they lived off of the same street that the hospital was on hand to God and they didn't come in.
Speaker 1:Now, when my half-sister they didn't meet Faith until she was three and a half months old, when my half-sister had her baby her first. She didn't know how to do anything, and so my biological mother went and stayed with her for like a couple of weeks to help her get acclimated, and I'm so glad that this baby was perfectly healthy and had nothing going on, and so she stayed. Well then, when she had and I don't know, her kids. When she had her second son and he had an ear infection. She could not take both boys to the doctor.
Speaker 1:Like she's, like I can't manage my one son, who's fine, and the other, who has an ear infection to my mother would drive like an hour up there to her house and help her take them to the doctor. And I'm like I'm walking around with a dislocated face and a dislocated shoulder and a broken foot and I have 11 pieces of medical equipment, from a pulse oximeter to an apnea belt, to a tracheostomy emergency bag, to a feeding bag, to the feeding pump, to the feeding I mean, and I'm carrying it all myself and I can't get help going to the doctor. And it's not a freaking ear infection Like that is what I was used to, you know, and so it's really hard and I've told people that if you haven't been through anything like we have, then imagine your worst day, like somebody cut you off on the way home and you got in a fight with your spouse and you've got arguments going with your loved ones, and this just goes on and on. Do you think your day can't get any worse?
Speaker 1:Dana, and I could take that one. I was gonna say one-handed, but that's kind of a pun, but like we could, literally we.
Speaker 2:I mean that's like an easy, easy day for us, like we would just be like that's the best you got, like that's what you're throwing at us today, like we got a day off, like that would be our day off you know and that, and that's the thing about it and that's what people don't get, because I know that when we got out of our relationships and this is common for anybody that comes out of a an abusive relationship is well, if it was that bad, why did you stay? And just yesterday on a podcast and actually it was an amazing podcast that I did with this woman and she did not mean it offensively, she was genuinely asking 25 years, how long? I mean she's like even good relationships don't sometimes last 25 years. How did you stay? And I told her because most of the stuff was just like any other Tuesday. Sometimes the stuff was much more dramatic, but sometimes it wasn't as bad. But the as bad was relative because as time went on, I always explain it that it's interesting.
Speaker 2:They see what they can get away with. You know, it's like dipping your toes in the water. Right, it's passed out in the beginning. Like dipping your toes in the water, they test you out in the beginning and even we who have very loose boundaries or seemingly have none at all, I was definitely one of those people for a long time. There is a point when you feel you know people don't understand that uneasiness that you feel, whether it's a low level, like eh, I don't know about this to a high level, panic and anxiety. That is okay, it's not unhealthy. That is your inner smoke detector going off saying something is not right here. But they know where that, where that boundary is, even if it's far out there, and every time they do something they just go, they just put their toe just over that edge to where they know it's going to poke at you a little. You're going to feel that disease, disease literally when we wonder why mental health develops into physical.
Speaker 2:But they get away with it because it's not a deal breaker. But you know, it's like I tell people how do you get from point A to point B? Because you know one year, you know 10 years ago you weighed this much and how did you gain 25 pounds in the last five or 10 years? It's the same thing with the abuse, it's just a little more, a little more, a little worse every time, putting an extra toe over the edge.
Speaker 2:This time Maybe I'm going to step totally over the edge and we're going to have a real big, dramatic, domestic, violent event today, and then we're going to pull back a little so that it doesn't seem so bad when I do this to you and swing something at your head or throw something across the room or drag your you know overly medicated body into the bathroom and leave you there and whatever. Hopefully you won't wake up. I mean, it sounds dramatic to people but to us it's a level of severity and if we can keep it on low level stuff, that's, that's a good day for us and we get used to it, right.
Speaker 1:You get used to hearing every day like you are not my type. You know, people feel bad that I'm with you, You're ugly, You're hideous, Nobody would ever want you. You know, it's like when you find that happiness and you have that person in your life and they make you so happy and they tell you how beautiful you are and that they love you, and you hear it all the time. You believe them. Well, it's the same thing, because these are the most charismatic people who are charming, and they will find that one part of you that they know is missing and they placate on it Like that is okay, Like mine was, I wanted children and I wanted that family and I had lost a child and so it was oh, you want children. Well, you know, I've always wanted children and and I really, you know, because I've been traveling so much with the military and this and that and the other and I was like, but I don't even think you're cute, like you know, and it was.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, you can maybe fall in love with them. Later. I told him I wasn't in love with him and it was well, you're, you know, still hung up on your ex, who's now my husband, and it's just, you know. You hear it every single day and you get to the point where you know it's. It's almost like studying for a test, where you know the material and you know what's coming. Like you know what tests? Oh, absolutely. And you sit there and it's you know, and people don't don't get it, because we literally sit there and go why didn't I have that food on the table two minutes earlier? But it doesn't matter, because two minutes earlier it might've been not cooked enough, and then you're going to get it anyway. So it doesn't matter if the house is immaculate. You look a certain way, you're doing everything to the book and you know what. Someone could cut them off on the way home.
Speaker 2:Someone, could you know get mad at him at work.
Speaker 1:It doesn't matter, we are his fighting playground. He's gonna come back and take it out on us because that's what he does and that's what we're accustomed to and that's just what we get used to. And then if we try to leave and we don't have that support, I mean they, they are very I hate to say good, because I don't ever want to give them they really are, though, but they are.
Speaker 1:They take away our friends, they take away our socialization. They take away our socialization. They take away where we go. Like if I wanted to go get my hair done, I had to call from the salon so that he could see on caller ID that I was there and I had to bring a receipt home.
Speaker 1:And he knew how long it would take me to get from point A to point B and, like I worked a good hour plus from home, without traffic, and my favorite day of the week was Monday because I wasn't going to be with him and it was I had to make certain calls at certain points on the way back because he would be getting rid of his women that were in the house. And it doesn't matter, there's no excuse why you're not doing what you're supposed to do, like it is that meticulous. And then you go back and you watch these things and you're like, oh, you know.
Speaker 2:And then you go back and you watch these things and you're like oh you know, just like the movie enough with you watch it.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, you sit there and watch it and you're just like looking and you're going. That's like a blessing for us, like we look at that and it's you know. But then I won't reveal the guest because she told me this off air. She's a very famous lady, wonderful, wonderful lady. I just thought the world of her and she said to me you know, I survived a domestic violence situation and I've not been very public about it, but I will tell you that, like being in the limelight of the Hollywood ism, you have to maintain a certain appearance.
Speaker 1:You have to maintain your, your physicality. You have to maintain that you can't even go out to the mailbox without your makeup on and your face on and your hair done. And you know, and she was like it costs a ridiculous amount of money and you have all these people and you know you have to always be dressed and ready to go. And she was like it's a facade and it's the same kind of thing, like you are expected to be this way and you have to maintain this composure and you have to go out there and you have to like you know, oh, you're three pounds too heavy. I'm gonna go on ozempic, you know, and it's like yes, are you kidding?
Speaker 1:And it's the same thing as being still an abusive situation because there's this protocol that has to be followed, that you have to be a certain way or you get ridiculed. And a lot of people don't see that. But then they're so quick to say, oh, I saw so, and so she looked horrible, and it's oh, she's got to be going through something. No, she just didn't spend six hours in a chair putting on her face and her hair and her you know extensions. But you know, in today's world, day to day, there's so many ways to not even look like who we are. You can do, you know, hair extensions and eye extensions and eye color, contacts and and tattooing makeup, and you know all the filters.
Speaker 2:Look at the filters that are out there and like, even last week, my, my grandma, called me and she said she saw something on Facebook or whatever. She's like, oh, I saw you on a podcast and you dyed your hair black. I'm like, no, actually it's a lot lighter. And because I've been out in the summer sun and you know that it's perception, I'm like, no, actually it's a lot lighter. And cause I've been out in the summer sun and you know, but it's perception, I'm like it's just lighting and it's all makeup and bull. I said it's bull crap, it's all bull crap. Yeah, yeah. But like I told you, I mean, if I didn't do this, like especially today, I'd look like the girl crawling out of the TV in the ring, and nobody wants to that I know, you say that all the time.
Speaker 2:But see, here's an interesting thing. You know, because you commented on how you know your looks were were ridiculed and oh, my stepfather was awful at that. He, I, I, I've been for the last year. I'm actually I am going to give myself a pat on the back because in the last year I have worked so hard and I've kind of kept this under wraps to work out an eating disorder at 48 years old that I have had since I was 12 years old and I have gained 10 pounds in the last year and you know I worried that my husband wouldn't find me attractive and my clothes weren't fitting and I could see like my face filling out and I have a little bit of a stomach now and it I'm so glad for people that make me feel good about who I am on the inside, like they think I'm funny, they think I'm smart, they like my personality, because this focus with narcissists on the looks. But here's where it got interesting. My stepfather, typical narcissist, criticized my looks. I mean, I'm six years old, eating a peanut butter and jelly and he's telling me I'm going to be fat like a middle-aged woman. I remember being 20 years old in college and he told me my hips were spreading and I'm going to look like my grandma soon. He was just so freaking obnoxious my whole life. It was no wonder I had an eating disorder, so freaking obnoxious my whole life. It was no wonder I had an eating disorder.
Speaker 2:But when I married my ex so here was the irony the only thing he would ever tell me, the only compliment that man would ever give me, and it was 20 times a day oh, you're so beautiful, you're so pretty. He would text me hey beautiful, hey beautiful, hey big. You know it was always the beautiful thing. And I always worried because I'm like, well, not always going to look like this. I mean, I, you want to be pretty to the person you're with, you want to feel attractive. It makes you feel good about yourself. But I was like, what happens when I'm not? What happens when I'm 70 or 80 or 90 and my skin starts wrinkling and my hair starts falling out or God forbid I get cancer and lose all my freaking hair? What then? What happens when I end up in a wheelchair and I gain 50 pounds because I can't run five miles a day like I like to do? What happens then? Is he still going to love me? Is he still going to like me? And I would express this to him because I think that's a reasonable thing that you want to know. You want the reassurance that this person actually does love you, not just for the facade and what you look like. And what did he do before we were married After?
Speaker 2:Till the end, till the bitter end, cheated on me constantly, and he wasn't even shy about it. He would tell me he would come home and tell me oh, I was just at this bar with my friend and this girl put her hand down my pants and she was doing this to me and I was making out with this one for three hours and you know, I went and F this one and it's and and he had told me a few times, it's because he wanted to make sure I knew he had options, that I needed to know what I had. And he even would tell me sometimes that maybe he would say, well, next time I'm going to marry a fat girl, a fat ugly chick, because then she'll be happy with me, she'll know what she has, she'll treat me like the king that I deserve to be treated like. And to take somebody that you're calling beautiful and that you're saying, oh, you're beautiful, you're really pumping this person up, as he was with me, and then crippling me.
Speaker 2:What does that say? That means, okay, my physical appearance isn't enough, so then? So then, that's validating exactly what my worry was, and so I was trying so hard. Still, I mean, he would tell me after I, after I had our son. I mean, when you have a newborn baby, you look like a snot rag for the first few months, if not longer. You know you're just trying to get through the day nap when you can, whatever. And he'd be like he'd come home from work and say my God, you know what time I'm come home from work. Why can't you get your makeup and hair done and at least put clothes?
Speaker 2:on that are and I, and even after I had another. I had multiple miscarriages with him. But even after I had another miscarriage after multiple, why can't you just have a baby like every other woman in this world? And just diminishing every sense of me and I mean any little tiny insecurity, they take it and just I mean not just stick the dagger in, they twist it and twist it. I just told somebody recently it's like if somebody throws you, like if you're hanging by a rope off a ledge, hanging on for dear life, and they're looking you in the eyes, saying I love you, and cutting that rope and letting you fall.
Speaker 2:That's what it feels like to be with a narcissist, whether it's your mother, your husband, your whoever. It's awful, it's excruciating pain. The betrayal and I think that's what it is is the betrayal trauma that you're healing from when you're going through that. But you're also dealing with the physical things going on inside your body, because the mental always manifests into physical. I mean, we cannot deny that. But it's a lot, it's really a lot, and it just pains me that there are still people out there.
Speaker 2:You know, as we said in the beginning, I get challenged all the time on different social media. Oh, I don't buy into this narcissism thing, okay. Well, the reality is we can give you a list of a million things that narcissistic traits. At the end of the day, it's two things. They have no empathy. They could give a flying F about you or anyone else. They are out for number one and that's them. Not even their own children come ahead of them. And two, no remorse whatsoever. They absolutely 100% feel justified and validated in doing what they're doing and they know exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 1:Right. I would add one more. I would say they have absolutely no respect for boundaries. Yeah, yeah, cause I learned that a lot with faith. Very true, yeah, I would. I would definitely say that I mean who? Who brings oh, I'm going to grow grab a bite to eat with the girls. And then there's a woman that shows up. That's why I always drove, always, and I mean always, I've always been the one that drives, because I'll get up and leave, like I'm not here for this, you know, I'm just not, I'm not going to be here for this, it's.
Speaker 2:And then to see like him being all attentive to a toddler, like a toddler, and not even say, or a toddler of a woman he's trying to screw, by the way, who is also your doctor?
Speaker 1:She was my therapist your therapist.
Speaker 2:My hand therapist, my physical therapist, yes, but still and then just like ignoring, like he didn't even try, with his own grandchild no, nothing to do with it who is a most beautiful, precious gift to this world. But I mean, I don't care if she was like the child of Satan. That's his grandchild, you know?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, his grandchild you know, and this particular one, this particular woman, was, at least, maybe give or take a couple of years, at least 10 years younger than me.
Speaker 2:That sounds like my grandfather, my grandma's husband. Oh my gosh. I only met him literally a handful of times in my life, but the stories, but yeah, he was always he. Often in my adult life I would hear that he was with some woman or or engaging with some woman intimately that had children younger than my son, and that she was much younger, half my age sometimes, and I was like, I mean, some of them were underage and I'm like you're a 60, 70 year old man, Like, and I'm like you're a 60, 70 year old man, Like, oh, and what do these women want with that?
Speaker 1:Thank, you money. Like I can't imagine. Like one thing that really sets us out is that, like you and I can never understand the mindset of these people, because we're not them, we're not like that, thank God, yeah, thank God. So like I would sit there and look at these two and it would be like like they would rub it in my face like teenage kids that weren't allowed to date. And I looked at them and I'm looking at her and I'm like what do you see? I mean, let's just give a number because hypothetically she was 34, 35, around and just around, and he's in his seventies and like you, you look and it's like and Faye's is a riot, she's freaking hysterical. You can't take this kid anywhere without your face hurting, because when they would show up, she'd be like I need a senior citizen menu and a kid's menu and two bibs, because they're both at the age to drool and that's what she would say it's hilarious.
Speaker 1:And that's what she would say it's hilarious, but like you sit there and you look and you're just like that's disgusting. I mean, that is like generational, like you know, and and I mean, like I have daddy issues.
Speaker 2:I'm going to admit my husband now is 11 years older than me and I mean I'm sorry, he, he, he. I look at him and I mean I love the gray hair in his chest and all that. It's just hot stuff to me. I love the belly.
Speaker 1:What's the age difference in you two?
Speaker 2:11 years. So it's not awful, I know it's not awful, especially when you're older it's not that big of a difference. But I do know people who have left their wives, left their children, to be with somebody significantly, much more than 11 years difference, significantly younger. And I mean I remember there was one specific time I knew the couple very well and he ran off with their kid's nanny who was much, much, much younger and I think she was just 18 or 19. And he's like I don't understand why anybody has an issue with me being happy. And I remember looking at him and I said, look, I don't agree with what you're doing. But I said you need to start thinking with something other than the one body part. Because I said, let's be real. I said, just double her age. I said was she 18? Now, when she is 36 and 18 years, you're going to be what? Like I mean, do you think she wants to be that age? And like changing your diaper and and wiping your the crap off your ass. I mean I don't mean that rudely.
Speaker 2:When you love somebody and I am not judging and I'm going to say this very clearly I believe that if you love somebody, you love somebody and the age doesn't matter. And are there couples that they could be 60 years apart? I don't care. If you truly love each other, then that's great, but unfortunately, in this world I don't trust that. That's usually the case when it's a very young woman who is being given a Mercedes convertible to drive around in and a great big house by the man that was willing to leave his wife and kids, you know, and everything he has to get a little young stuff and everything he has to get a little young stuff.
Speaker 2:I don't know. I don't know what these men are thinking, but they're thinking in the moment and they're thinking it looks good on their arm and it looks good on social media and and they're going with it. But again, they, they honestly, they have no capacity to think outside themselves. It's about what they're getting and that's all that matters. But I saw that with your dad and I think the most appalling thing with all I mean because, unfortunately, maybe it's because I've been surrounded by infidelity my whole life and experienced it, and you know, yeah, the one thing in your book that stood out to me was when you are, you had that special weekend away with Faith and she was having. It was what the night before a surgery, I believe.
Speaker 1:We were going away for the weekend, coming back late Sunday night.
Speaker 2:And the surgery was like Tuesday.
Speaker 2:Right and he just wanted to come along and then suddenly this woman shows up and then she has her kid and he kept trying to pawn this kid off on you with faith and I mean, and there's pictures, and there's pictures, but I just don't comprehend the last thing I would ever want to do. Number one even if faith had been born healthy and required no surgeries and what have you? You have a young child. They have a lot of energy, they require a lot of supervision and attention and, after everything you've been through, lord give you a damn break, like he should have been. If he wanted to really be there with you, he should have been tending to you and spending time with the two of you, playing games, going out to eat, whatever, being with the two of you, his daughter and his one granddaughter. Instead, he has a woman and he's trying to pawn off her.
Speaker 2:Very young. What was it? A toddler, three years old or something, not even. No, she was like two, two, a toddler who requires that much more energy and attention and time onto you to take care of so he can go.
Speaker 2:I mean, he didn't say it, but obviously he was trying to get some with this woman who wasn't his wife, that was not even invited and basically like intervened on this whole, just totally disrupted this special plan trip you had with your daughter. It was just that just really affected me. I mean, there was so much more appalling stuff in the book but I think I was like, oh yeah, you know, but that was just like my God, you will go to no end to make sure, forgive me for being a book vulgar, but to stick your dick in this woman, thank you, like you can't wait till her lunch hour on wednesday and go pick her up for lunch and take her to one of those motels where they charge you by the half hour, jesus christ oh, remember, but he even got his wife to help build the toddler's christmas presents.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, that's right, but you know what was horrible and I didn't put it in the book because you know, yes, a lot of it is humiliating for both of us, but if it helps somebody, that it makes a difference. But I didn't want to put so much of like my surgical history in there. But I have a shoulder replacement. Like my left shoulder has been completely replaced, and so I was always chesty and I had to get a breast reduction and I did not want to put that in there because it seemed a little personal. But so I had to go get a breast reduction and my dad sits there and says to me why are you going to do this? Men want a redheaded woman with big boobs and there are certain words I will not say, and he didn't call them boobs and I was like listen, I got it. There are certain words I will not say and he didn't call them boobs and I was like listen, I got it. It is wildly inappropriate for you to have this conversation with me like I, I don't want to hear it. So he's like what size are you going down to? Okay, again, not having this conversation with you like this is disgusting and I'm not having this conversation with you. Yeah, and he, he was like but you know, if you're gonna be all scarred up, at least have where somebody has stuff to play with. And I was like, if I had my way I'd be like a surfboard flat. Like you know, there is not a man alive that after everything I went through, that I want to carry boobs around, for you know. And I was like because I can't have any more kids and faith can't be breastfed. So guess what? Take them, I give me. You know, I would love to walk around without a bra, thank you. And so I said I'm not having this conversation with you.
Speaker 1:Well, after I had the surgery and I came home and was taking care of faith and everything else, a few weeks later he was like so how small did you go? And I was like I am not, for the love of God, I'm not having this conversation with you. And I called my best friend, who had not passed away yet, obviously, and she goes. Have you ever thought that maybe he had thoughts of you intimately? I was like I hate you. Like why would you? Even? Never in my life did I ever, ever think about that? And she was like but what parent in their right frame of mind or not right frame of mind would say to their kid what size are your breasts, you know, and what?
Speaker 2:are the scars like? And you know you're like. This is so uncomfortable. Why would you? I know, but it's not that far off base, because that's how some of these people are. It is awful. I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 1:Right, I was like I don't know, but they are so, but now I don't want to look at it.
Speaker 2:It's interesting too, because a lot of the times I mean you know, I saw, even though you were kind enough to cover faces and stuff, I mean you could get enough of a glimpse of him and I mean there was nothing that I would. You know, he would have gone nuts for you. Well, he wouldn't have gotten very far. 20-year-old Dana maybe would have gone nuts for you, Well, he wouldn't have gotten very far. 20-year-old Dana maybe would have been like, oh you know, and been naive, but this Dana, this new Dana, doesn't. No, it would have been the second his mouth opened to say hello, I would have just stuffed it with a dildo or something. But it's interesting how physically focused they are when they are not very much to look at and see, he thought he was God's gift to women.
Speaker 1:That's what baffles me.
Speaker 2:Yet you know like I go back to, like my ex always saying how beautiful. And even my stepdad, one time in my life he actually said something nice to me and guess what it was? He told me I looked pretty that day. It was at a Christmas. I was like, oh, and he even wanted to take my picture, which you know felt a little off. But yeah, yeah, but thank God I was never sexually, there was never any of that. I thank God for that every day. But they, I don't know. It's just weird to me because even when I look back, like my, my stepdad and my mom were very far apart in age. I will probably similar to me and my husband somewhere around that 11 year mark, but when I looked at him, like on their wedding day, he was what? 33, 34, 35, something like that, and I mean she looked like a baby. My mother, she was so beautiful but she looked like a baby. And I'm looking at them like I.
Speaker 2:I mean it's so judgmental and superficial, but his personality, you know, I mean you started reading the book it's lacking, just like I mean no disrespect, but your father, after seeing your father's text messages and stuff, his personality doesn't do very much to help him his character or integrity no, you could be a physically gorgeous person and have a really crappy real dick and you're ugly.
Speaker 1:You're so unattractive to me. But then you have someone who treats you like you deserve to be treated and they love you for who you are.
Speaker 2:They, to me, become one seriously good looking individual because 100, because it's how they make you feel and it's, it's the beauty of their soul. But that's, I think that's where I'm going with this is, you have these people that physically just are they're not anything that I would look at twice and their personalities suck ass. And you know, I'm sorry that's not very eloquent and I'm a writer, but the personalities suck ass. We're unfiltered here, we're unfiltered.
Speaker 2:That's how I normally talk. When I write, I'm much more thoughtful about my verbiage, but yet people are attracted to them. And you know, and the thing is we talk about, like you know, women going after them for money and whatever. And you know, and the thing is we talk about, like you know, women going after them for money and whatever. And you know, my mother would probably die if she heard me say this, but I mean, it's definitely apparent to me when I look back at my childhood. You know she wanted a life, a lifestyle that she didn't think she could attain on her own, and she said as much to me when we had a conversation one of the three times we went no contact that she honestly felt that without him and the resources and when we say resources we mean his lying and fraudulent behavior to attain things in ways that are not morally correct, because I swear to God, he crushed babies underfoot if it meant him getting a new Corvette or something, I swear to God. But she wanted the life and that was ultimately what ended our relationship altogether, Because I begged, I pleaded.
Speaker 2:You know, even if it's strained, even if you don't understand me, even if we disagree on so many things. I would like a mother to whatever extent I can have a mother, even if we disagree on so many things. I would like a mother to whatever extent I can have a mother. And she said I cannot be your mother and his wife at the same time because he didn't want that he had. You know, narcissists want you all to themselves. But it was okay for her to be a mother to my brother because that was their biological child. I was not biologically his, which would have been fine if I would have played the role they had decided that I should play in the family facade. But I didn't, because even as a small child which the publisher challenged me on, but I said no, I was that tenacious little thing that called crap out.
Speaker 2:I was kind of like your faith. That's why I think I adore her so much. She just says what it is and I saw stuff and I called it is. And I saw stuff and I called it out. And that's what they didn't like, because nurses do not going back to how we started, they do not like when somebody sees them for who they really are. And if they cannot control you and manipulate you and shut you up, then, boy, are you going to pay the price, and for too often, the ultimate price is you know you. You know how that can go and it's very sad, but we're so glad that you're here and that faith is here, and that I mean I. I truly believe that anybody who can survive a narcissistic relationship that gets that violent, you know when, when somebody actually cares so little about you that they, they don't even have respect for your life and, in your circumstances, your unborn baby, that how they are able to walk around on this earth free is beyond me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and like, even when my mother would say to faith, you know, if she died on the OR table, ok, yeah, I mean no person, no man, no, no, anyone is ever going to come between faith, and I don't care who they are, who they think they're going to be, it's not going to happen. Like you know, if somebody does anything that that hurts faith, I like she just sits back and she's like this is going to be good. You know, like she's had, she's had nurses that we fired when we were in that situation and then we had nurses that wouldn't even look at the chart and we're like oh, here we're going to give you morphine and it says don't give her morphine because she didn't want it.
Speaker 1:You know she doesn't want any kind of narcotic. She's like me, she doesn't want any pain meds. So she was like I don't want anything and she's like I would like something to drink. I want something to eat. And you know, oh, the kitchen's closed, whatever, go fetch a pudding, I don't care, go do something. And so you know, when this it's like I'm the tigering mom, I'll sit there and be quiet. Come at me, come get me. That's fine, you cross that line and you come at faith. God help you. Like that is just that's it. I mean glove off, you know.
Speaker 1:And she'll laugh. She'll say mommy says she can't leave fingerprints, I can't leave fingerprints, I don't have a hand, you know. So you know it's, it's kind of a funny kind of thing, but don't mess with my kid. And you know she's always like, you know, even when she was little. She's like you're nothing like them. And and I said I've given you everything I ever needed and wanted from them and never received. And she was like you're just like your grant, you are with your grandparents. And I said, yes, I wanted you to have that Like I. I could not have my child spending and I say this all the time, I don't want her spending her adulthood recovering from her childhood, you know. And she was hilarious.
Speaker 1:She even said one time you know, why do you think he's good looking? You know, she asked that she was like why do you think he's good looking? Then they're like he's a good looking man. And she's like are you Helen Keller's brother? That's what she asked. She was like you know, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1:You know, she's like I don't understand. And she's like I don't think he's good looking. And they're like oh, he's a good looking man. And then, you know, she reminds me of like Sophia from the Golden Girls, you know she was. And she's like I don't think she gets out much mom. And I'm like but it is, they're not. You know, they're not attractive. And and it's just mind-blowing to me how like I would watch these women fall over him and you just want to look at him and be like yeah, I don't get it. What is wrong with you? And the first real interaction was he had all these beautiful boats and yachts and stuff and he, he had an interior designer who I won't say her name, it was, she was appropriately named. I'll just say that I'll turn it off recording what her name was.
Speaker 1:But you know, she would come in and wear like black thongs and white debris pants and she'd get stains on them and she'd be like, oh look, I got something here and I'm like it's called chlamydia, and she would just like he'd be like you need to apologize, and I would say, okay, you're sorry.
Speaker 1:He's like that's not funny, and she would like bear down in front of him and I'm sorry, that was good and you know, and it's like I would always say, and I would look, and you know, she would come up wearing the scattless little you know, next to nothing, and I would be like she looks like a bucket of chicken, like there's her breasts, there's her thighs, there's her legs, you know, there is the whole thing. But somebody needs to go fry it, like you know. And I would tell her she'd reach across and like, put her hand on his chest. And none of her, none of her pictures are in the book. This was decades before. And she would be like, oh, let's go get something to eat. And she would try to sit beside him. And I walked over and picked her by the back of the collar and said, let's go. You're going to the other side of the table. Like you're not. No, I came here to have dinner with him. He didn't invite, invite you. I'd even walk up to the door.
Speaker 1:You know where Faith gets it and it says no pets allowed. I'm like, how's she getting it? Like you know, I mean, this is just stuff, I would say, and she's like let's share a dessert. And I'm like let's get a, let's get a doggy bag to go so she can actually have some food, you know, and she would just like lean over. And it was appalling and I told her. Her I said, if you touch him again, you're going under the boat, like I'm going to show you how to get clean. And she just had no remorse. I'm like, if you're like this when I'm here, what are you like when I'm not? Can you imagine?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I would be like, why does it smell like tuna? And I'm like, oh, she's here, oh, I had no filter and it was just right, you know. And and I and he's like, well, she wants to stay and watch a movie. And I said I don't like horror movies, I don't want to see Freddy Krueger, you know like it's just.
Speaker 2:It's so sad to me, though. You know, when I think, I think about women like that and and you know I was I was the people pleasing codependent. I mean, how the hell did I end up in a 25 year relationship with a narcissist exactly for that reason? But looking at other women who fall for this crap, it makes me sad. I mean even even my own mother. You know. I saw after she had my brother. You know the biological child she had with her husband. I mean she did it back then. It was the Jane Fonda video.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Everybody had yeah.
Speaker 2:All that, the Suzanne Summers, the thigh master.
Speaker 1:I'm like making the motion.
Speaker 2:That's why she had to squeeze and you were bobbing and getting your abs and shake weight. Yeah, that's the thing, the stepper she. She had all of this and she was doing these videos and she was like desperately trying like she would come in my closet and like try to fit in this. Cause I was getting to be a teenager. I was like almost 14 when my like just under 14, when my brother was born. But it's like she was trying to get back into the clothes that we used to share. You know cause we would buy clothes that it was for both of us, cause we were both the same size, and then she wasn't anymore, Cause she was a mother again and her body went to crap and she never recovered from it. But watching her and like I didn't realize it back then, but like I never saw her eat very rarely, not when we went to grandma's holidays. Sometimes she'd make a plate, but at home, I mean she didn't make anything for us half the time but she never ate.
Speaker 2:And looking back, I'm like God. So he wasn't just doing it to me. I mean he was giving my mother a complex about her appearance. I just wasn't hearing or really recognizing what I was seeing because I was so busy struggling to survive on my own. But yeah, they're very physical and it's sad to see that so many women fall for it. Whether they call you beautiful or they diminish your appearance, no matter what you look like, it's all crap and they really need to start looking at themselves. But again, a narcissist is never going to acknowledge anything that could be perceived as any flaw, deficiency, weakness. Their ego cannot withstand that, so they think they're great.
Speaker 2:I wish I had that kind of self-esteem. Wouldn't mind borrowing it for a minute. But I'm okay with who I am and thank God that you and I both survived what we did, that we have raised children very much opposite of how our parents raised us, and that they know that their parents love us or love them, and that they're stable. And we can't. We just have to stop perpetuating this cycle and I just appeal to anybody who's listening to this that if you see any of this in your life, don't ignore it, you know, don't think it's just a situation or oh, like my mother used to say, oh, that's just how he is.
Speaker 2:Well, when he's abusive, or he's an a-hole and he is causing a six-year-old child to start developing an eating disorder, when he is causing you to have no self-esteem and diminishing your mental or physical capacity to take care of yourself or think that you can have a life. I mean, rethink it. Take your power back, please, please, please, because we survived it. We are living beautiful lives now. You don't have to stay in that muck. It can be better. You might have souvenirs, like we do, whether they're physical or mental or both most often both but it's okay. It's part of who you are now and you can still live a beautiful life.
Speaker 1:I'm so glad you said that because you know on the next show we need to talk about how to go from where they are, if they're in it currently, to how to get out and find themselves again and get back to who they are. But even better.
Speaker 2:I love that because there's a lot there and there's a lot that people can do, because I know that you want it out. I mean you get to a point where you wake up but you can't just walk out. People think it's that easy and it's not. You need to out. I mean you get to a point where you wake up but you can't just walk out. People think it's that easy and it's not. You need to plan, you need to be prepared and especially when there's kids involved you know I also had animal things involved and there's a lot to it and then there's a lot to finding yourself again and it's an endless. I mean we both still seek assistance to help us with whatever issues still come up, because there's always some remnants there. You can get better, you improve.
Speaker 2:Healing always continues and we're both in good places, but it never ends and I don't want anyone to think that there's ever an end or a sense of perfection. Eventually, but it gets better. It's always going of perfection eventually, but it gets always going to be there, but it gets better. Exactly, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And lean on those people who get it Like I love this woman and I tell her all the time I'm like I don't care, if you want to yell, scream, cry, vent, you can have my shoulder, it's titanium, it's waterproof. I mean, I give her my one hand, you know, like I don't care if she's having a bad day.
Speaker 1:You know, we all need someone to vent, and who gets it, who understands it? And then I'll be like why haven't I heard what's going on? What's wrong with you, you know, and it's I'm that annoying nagging person that I'm like.
Speaker 2:I want to know how you're doing how you're feeling, but that's not annoying because you know what it's when it. No, because no, and I'm not saying annoying because you think you're annoying, but what you are I am feeling, what you think is annoying, is love to me, because when I go quiet and I know I am speaking for a lot of people out there that are listening that can relate to this when I go quiet, there is something haunting me, there is something going wrong, there is something wrong and and you know the second book as you know, I have had a lot. I didn't even know that I suppressed memories, because my memory is actually very, very sharp Many people have commented on that, it's almost too sharp but I didn't know that I could suppress memories and memories were still resurfacing even after the book was finalized and I have gone through a lot with it and there are still moments. But I am not going to be hard on myself and I want people to hear this, even though we'll talk about it more. Do not be hard on yourself.
Speaker 2:But if you have somebody who is asking who you are, and I love that because that means you care and I know I can count on you and I'm not going to reach out to you because I'm a big girl and I got to do it on my own, because that's just who I am. I know we're all going to roll our eyes. I roll my eyes at myself half the time, but thank you for the persistence, because too many times people give up and too many times when people give up and the phone stops ringing and the phone stops buzzing because everybody just assumes you're fine and assumes you're busy, that's when bad stuff happens, that's when we start going down the rabbit hole and that's when we start thinking things and some people act on it, and I never want that to happen. So I don't care. If you think you're being annoying, I love you.
Speaker 2:But if you're listening and you're an annoying person like that, and that's fine, be annoying, Persist. If you haven't heard from somebody in a while, you know what it takes two seconds Just say hey, how are you doing? Haven't heard from you in a while. I was thinking about no idea. You literally might be saving a life and I know that sounds dramatic but it's not and that's the end of my PA and I do love you and thank you for being annoying and you're not annoying.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to this episode.
Speaker 1:Our next one is going to help you realize that you can be annoying. We could call each other the annoying sisters. Go get her book. I mean, I'm telling you. I'm telling you, even if and you know, I don't know if you listen I don't want to, but like the podcast that my husband and I did on sunday, I am like on and on, I'm like she's such a great writer and I can't wait to be here. And it's not here and it's running late and just like. And I'm like this woman and he's like didn't you do gasping for air? I'm like where have you been? And I'm like, yes, she did gasping for air. And he was like you know, how do you rate that book? And I was like it's one of my top 10 favorites of all time and I said I'd say that to her and I say that when she's not here, you're very sweet.
Speaker 2:Well, it's the truth.
Speaker 1:Well, and I'll have one more.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, and I want people to get you have, like. I know, but you make me look bad. I only have two books out. You have like what? 14 now 13, 14. I know you're nodding your head Like it's no big deal. Another trauma trait, by the way. Oh, it's no big deal, we'll just diminish my success. Oh, my goodness, that's how many? A lot, okay. She just gave me fingers and not the middle finger, though. No, I didn't give her the middle finger.
Speaker 1:I told her how many books I've done, Not plus and plus. Total Like first digit, second digit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 41. Somebody go pick up one of her 41 books please. But honestly, I've said this before. But all joking aside, if somebody is still actually listening to us, go to a contagious smilecom, because I actually, if you go through your shop, you have I loved for me. I'm a journal person and you have a lot of really cool journals on there. Go to the selfie store.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:There's dream journals Cause I'm I'm a I'm a total dream journalist. But even just like for your free writing, for your emotions, there's dream journals because I'm a total dream journalist, but even just like for your free writing, for your emotions, it's one of the best things you can do for your mental health, especially if you're still in a situation. Yes, it's one of the best things you can do for yourself. So pick up one of her journals, start free writing and we'll talk to you more about all that stuff next time.
Speaker 1:And their purpose. I want everybody to know they're purposely written so that if you're still in that environment situation, your attacker, your abuser will not know, because it's done where you will know and you'll know when you're reading it, but the layout of it and the covers are not going to give any indication. Yeah, they're inconspicuous.
Speaker 2:That's important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and between that site and Amazon I wanted to be able to have people. Where I learned the hard way and it's in who Clicked First, where I had a book about how to get out and survive on my office, in my office, and he came in and so I was like I don't want that. So if people are at work or they're on their laptop or they're on their phone, they can download it and hide it in a file somewhere where there's all these other workbooks and things of that nature, where you can go and get help and advice and daily reminders of how wonderful you are. And so that's where this store comes in, and so you can go and get the digital downloads of things and not have to worry about the physical book being around.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and thank you for pointing that out, because that's part of why I did my books in e-book format as well as print, because it's hard to have a book that says abuse on the front of it. Yes, just sitting around when you're in that situation. But, yes, definitely check out a contagious smile dot com. You can go to my site, dana S Diaz dot com. Connect with us on socials, where we're all over there. So we're everywhere. We try to be, we try to, we try to make ourselves known so that you don't have to speak up until you are comfortable. So we're speaking for you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, we got you. Thank you so much again, as always.
