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A Contagious Smile Podcast
A Contagious Smile is a powerful platform dedicated to uplifting and empowering special needs families and survivors of domestic violence. Through heartfelt stories, we shine a light on the journeys of extraordinary individuals who have overcome unimaginable challenges. Their triumphs serve as a testament to resilience and strength, inspiring others to rediscover their own inner light. Each episode features candid interviews with survivors, advocates, and experts who provide valuable resources and insights to support those on their own paths to healing and empowerment. Join us as we celebrate the power of resilience, the beauty of shared stories, and the unstoppable spirit of those who turn adversity into hope. Let us guide you in rekindling your spirit, because every smile tells a story of courage and transformation.
A Contagious Smile Podcast
Life After Abuse: The Reality of Justice Trigger Warning
Hello, hello. It's Dana Diaz with my ride or die sister from another, Mr Victoria, and we are. I love my sister, yes, and we love her red glasses that, as I always say, they're like a frame for her beautiful eyes. I know I love those glasses on you. They're amazing. So we're here today. Hopefully we're going to be answering some of the 500, some questions we've been getting. And don't worry, keep sending them in. We will eventually get to them if we can focus and stop rambling about other things, but that's mostly me.
Speaker 2:It's not mostly you, it's both of us. And my husband says I have diarrhea in the mouth, so yeah, I know my husband's like.
Speaker 1:sometimes I look at him I'm like, did you hear what I just said? Cause he does actually have hearing issues, honestly. But I'll be like, did you hear what I just said? And he'll be like, well, you know, you share every thought that you have and I'm like I know that that's part of my charm. That's what we do.
Speaker 2:So we've had also we talked a little bit about the financial abuse and control We've had a lot of requests on how to start preparing if they choose to leave their situation. A bunch of questions were like how do I start to prepare myself and get myself safer while I'm in the process of trying to get out?
Speaker 2:I thought maybe that's a good area, cause we probably had about 20 people ask different questions within that realm and I kind of put little words down on the side to kind of make sure we cover all of it, and there's a lot you can do. The first thing I would do is, when you get a Throw away phone or a new phone I don't know if you're able to do it on your current phone is make sure you do not activate location Servicing, like you want to make sure you don't share where you are, because even if it's just sharing like if I had my location servicing on for Dana to see me you can be traced. So you want to make sure you don't have that on any of your devices. That's really important.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and be careful too, because I mean, I know people, I know you have this experience, but you know there are people that I know that are with I'm trying to be vague, but people that are in law enforcement or have access to people in law enforcement. You have to be careful because your cell phone does ding off of towers so they do have ways of finding you. And you have to be careful too, because even back in the olden days and the two thousands, um, you know, I realized that I didn't even cover this and there was just so much. You can't, like you said, you can't put everything in these books, but, my ex, you could go to best buy or anywhere, like any electronic store, and buy like a little tracker that somebody can just stick it like up in, like your, you know, under your car, like under your bumper, under your wheel, whatever, and it will track you and you won't even know that it's on there.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's why, like large companies that provide vehicles or have you know, people in the field will often use some kind of tracking device like that. So you have to be wary that even if you do do that, which I think is a great idea turn off that location sharing, make sure it's not shared, but just be aware that you know there are other ways for them to track you. So you definitely. If there's any way you can leave your vehicle somewhere and be taken, either by foot or if somebody can drive you, or, if you have, if you're in an area that has public transportation, that's probably best. But just be aware that people can still track you even if your location sharing is off on your phone, because your cell phone will ding off of towers.
Speaker 2:Right. And another thing I would say hands down that you need to do is the rate of abuse in law enforcement and military is higher than in the civilian sector. So and I was in that sector, yes so one of the things that I did was I made sure to follow every single law to at if the speed limit's 45, do not go over 40, because they have to have probable cause to pull you over. And if your spouse, significant other, is in law enforcement or military, they could go to, let's just say, their coworkers, or to the MPs or whatever the case may be, and say, hey, I want to know why my spouse is on base, why is she on the installation, or why is she driving around when she's supposed to be with the kids or at work or whatever. They have to have probable cause to pull you over.
Speaker 2:So make sure you use your turn signal, make sure you make a complete stop, make sure you know, because if you see a cop car around and they know your car, especially in small towns, then you know and they know you and they know your car, you know you. You don't trust anyone, because if you get pulled over, they have what's called a kdt and they're off in a police vehicle and they run your tag. Well, when they run your tag, they're going to call in and say they're on. Every agency has different codes. It could be 10 codes, it could be you know different codes and they say that they're.
Speaker 2:They've pulled a vehicle over for you know an expired, expired tag or brake lights out or you know, improper lane change, failure to yield to oncoming traffic. It's just ridiculous. So when they approach you if they do, you have the right to record it. You ask them as soon as they come to the window of your vehicle make sure you comply with everything.
Speaker 2:Ask them if they're recording. Do they have their body cam on? Are they recording? Um, because they're supposed to be. And if they don't, you have the right to ask for a supervisor. And if they say the supervisor is unavailable, you have the right to ask for the watch commander. And you know you also have a right if it's nighttime or daytime, whatever the case may, and you're being pulled over, say, on a side street, you have the right to continue to drive until you are in a public place, not on the side of a road, in the middle of nowhere. You can drive into a public parking lot, somewhere that's lit. If it's at nighttime, you have that right. So you can do those things. But you want to make sure that if they pull you over, it's for good reason, because let me tell you these, and I can tell you from experience, these guys stick together. Not all of them, not every cop in the military is bad apples, but there are quite a few in the orchard and they stick together. And it's covered up, yeah, and they stick together.
Speaker 2:And it's covered up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and one thing that I'll just throw out there and I'm not trying to scare people or discourage anybody but, yes, be aware of what the law is, but understand that, yes, they are not all corrupt, but they are all not going to honor the law either. Right, they won't. And even if you are aware of the law and you tell them that you are aware of the law and what you have a right to and this, and that they may not honor that, and you have to be prepared for that.
Speaker 2:Right, and then remember that there are things like if you call 911, you can call and say you want to order a pizza. On the new iPhones, you can go under settings and select that one of your buttons on the side immediately and silently calls 911. And you can just tap the button and don't worry about anything, because if they hear the escalating, then they'll hear it and that's you know, and they have a way of tracking you as well. Then they'll hear it and that's you know, and they have a way of tracking you as well. But you need to make sure that, like, you set one of those buttons to immediately call 911. And there are also other apps that you can do and put on your phone that help when this happens. So those are some things. I'm also going to have a class set up where I'm doing that right now, where I'm setting that up, so all that information will be in there as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and something that I'm just throwing in there, kind of to add to all this. One of the things that I came up against is, you know, my son had asked me and honestly I went along with it because I was terrified. I never called 911. I was never getting the police involved, because we do live in a small town and my kid did. Everybody knows everything and everybody knows everyone and everybody thinks they know everybody's business, even if it's just a rumor. But my kid didn't want to be the kid whose mom called the cops on dad once or twice or a million times. So we just kept to ourselves and didn't say anything to anyone and never involved the authorities. But when it was necessary, because I honestly thought I was going to be killed on a certain night, I did call 911. I had to call 911.
Speaker 1:No-transcript, the deed of that property. He was not even removed from the property and it was the middle of the night and he was clearly drunk. His firearm was not taken away. I just want people to be aware that the law is not always on your side. What? What happened with me was they said that there was no paper trail and I went. You know, obviously I was a little upset, um, and telling them oh no, this has been going on for years. He did this, he did that, but I never reported it. So let me tell you what I found out, unfortunately the hard way, but which helped me later when I went to get an order of protection, because I faced the same problem when I went to get that you have to have a paper trail.
Speaker 1:You do not have to call 911 to report something that happened in your home. You can, at least in my area I could go to the county sheriff's department and I could file a report. It's just a piece of paper. Nobody is, you're not sitting down with an officer or anything. They give you the piece of paper name, address, all your basic info you provide. They give you a space where you can detail exactly what happened, what the incident was, the date and the time of the incident, and they file that they will get, at least in my case. They gave me a card with a case number on it. It was filed. Nobody nobody was calling my ex at that point or or talking to anybody, it was just in. Basically there it was documentation.
Speaker 1:So later, when I did go to get an order of protection, even though I still faced a judge who said well, if this has been going on for 25 years, there's not. You know, there were just these two incidents that you reported. How am I supposed to think that you're actually in danger? And that's a whole other, separate thing. But just understand, a paper trail is going to help you more than not and you can go and file that report more than not and you can go and file that report, find out where you can go and report things without anybody being contacted about it.
Speaker 1:Just so there is evidence and documentation. And God forbid, maybe I watched too many 48 hours, but God forbid, your life is taken at some point. You want justice, even in death, and and the justice will come If there is evidence, if there's documentation of the things that were happening leading up to that. But, but big but, based on what we were just talking about, be aware if you are being tracked, if you have location sharing, if there's a tracker on your car, whatever, please don't drive your vehicle or take your phone or if your spouse is a cop, don't think they don't tell you.
Speaker 1:Well, right, you know that's always a possibility, but you have to have a paper trail, you have to have some evidence somewhere paper trail.
Speaker 2:You have to have some evidence somewhere. Well, I want to go and play devil's advocate on this, because I one thing that Dana and I do is we, we give you our experiences and what helps and what doesn't help, and hope that you know we give you something that helps you. And I want to tell you you know, I don't know if you have read who Kicked First. It's very detail-oriented on how I got out. But here's the thing I collected so much evidence that everybody was like why do you have so much proof? It's almost eerie. You have so much.
Speaker 2:I had photographs that had dates on them that coincided with medical records and they would say, oh well, you can dummy dates on a camera. Okay, well then you know what? If you take your mouse and you click over on the picture, then it actually comes up with a little block and it tells you the date of the picture. I had screenshot all of those that actually coincided with the date on the actual photo. So they coincided perfectly date on the actual photo. So they, you know, coincided perfectly.
Speaker 2:But I had medical records, I had photographs, I had witness statements, like I had an officer who was there when he shot and killed a dog who made a statement, and it was a friend, he was off duty, but that doesn't matter. And you know, I had that. And then I had, like I said, I had photographs, I had medical records, I had witness statements. I had that. And then I had, like I said, I had photographs, I had medical records, I had witness statements, I had doctor statements, I had sworn affidavits from medical personnel and the thing is he was active duty at the time and active duty military personnel don't have civilian rights, right? So if I tried to do anything, it was turned over to the military, which, okay, we're going to open an investigation, blah, blah, blah. And so I kept getting proof. Well, the reason I did was nobody was doing anything and I was going to his command and saying what would you do if a soldier was beating his wife? And I would lift up my sunglasses and I'd have a big, huge shiner or, you know, my nose would be displaced and they would say oh, we have a term called grabbing real estate. Now, if you don't know what that is, how would you know if it wasn't stated to you? So they said you know, we'll take care of it, we're not going to let that go. You know we're going to take care of it. So I even went and learned that there is something called the Transitional Compensation Fund for the military that helps people in domestic violence situations get out. They help compensate you to help you get out of that situation, right?
Speaker 2:I went to the advocacy center. I had all of the pamphlets, the brochures. I even had the business card, which I still have, the business card of the advocate who was supposed to be helping me, with her personal cell phone number on it with her name, right. So when all this was going on and we ended up back in court, they were like oh, she must have slipped through the cracks. Well, obviously, how would I have known about transitional compensation? I'm a civilian, I'm not active duty. How would I know about these things if it wasn't presented to me? How would I have obtained this information that is kept in the advocacy office locked up, had I not gone to see an advocate? How would I have her business card with her cell phone and her name on it in her handwriting if I didn't go to see her, right? So I had all of this stuff. I even had the.
Speaker 2:I'll say it, I wore a wire and he confessed to everything. I had 17 and a half hours of confession where he bragged about it, where he told his command of what he was doing. He told his command how he disfigured his brother. He told his command how he shot and killed the dog and they did nothing, nothing. So I went to the base commander and went with the base commander after Faith was born, with my private investigator, and we went and had a meeting and they said oh, we knew of a soldier's wife who was pregnant, who was getting beaten up, and what did y'all do about it? Nothing, we didn't do anything. Oh, okay, so all the evidence and everything else.
Speaker 2:I went to the civilian sector and I had a lovely, very, very lovely lesbian, uh butch detective who went and grabbed his ass off the base and locked him up Nine felonies dead to rights, went to the Bindover hearing and I'm in the courtroom and he had JAG, obviously, and they said who took out the warrants? And the detective said, said the wife did. Well, the judge looked at me and shook his head and said all charges are dismissed and I, like, came out of the chair what? And they said well, there's protocol, you have to open an investigation, cid gets involved. And I said I've been interrogated by cid, put me on the stand, what are you doing? And they said the MPs have to get involved, the CID get involved, everybody was involved. But then they're supposed to work with the civilian sector to decide what charges are going to be pressed. And then they work with them and you know they work together and then they go from there. But it's the military side who takes out all the official warrants and all that other stuff.
Speaker 2:But because I did it the other way, sol can't do anything about it dismissed and I was dumbfounded and so just so you know and I have signed a non-disclosure so I can't be very specific when I say this but I wasn't going to let my daughter, who fought hell in a handbasket to see her mom, give up, and you know I was fighting for her life, I was fighting for my life, anything that wasn't life-threatening on me. I had to wait physically to get fixed because I'm a single mom. I have a tracheostomy-dependent child. I have a child who has seizures. I'm a single mom. I have a tracheostomy dependent child. I have a child who has seizures. I have a child who's feeding dependent on a feeding tube.
Speaker 2:I have a child who has to have a CPAP and a heated trach collar and an apnea belt and a pulse ox probe and to go to the doctor's 15 pieces of equipment that I'm carrying by myself while pushing her in a special cart and nobody helping me. And I have all this disfigurement and I'm still trying to keep my head above water and I am fighting. It felt like everybody and it felt like everybody was against me. But I fought and got the rights terminated because there was no way in Sam's green creation I was going to let him anywhere around her again, and not only that. But then I decided you know what it's about principle and moral, and because of the NDA I can't go into much. I sued the military. I took it all the way to federal and guess what I won? I refused to give up. I refused, and even though it was only civil and it wasn't criminal charges and the cap that the government put on it was ridiculous, especially after all the expenses come out. The lawyers get their share.
Speaker 2:You don't get enough to go and do anything you don't even get enough to get a house and I'm not talking about, you know, a half a million dollar house you don't even get enough to get a small house, right, you get nothing. But it's the principle that I wanted my child to know that you don't back down right, that this is you need to hold people accountable for their actions. So all of the evidence that I had eventually, yes, it helped Eventually. Yes, he was discharged medically from the military for this, but he was given benefits for the rest of his life. We were given nothing, nothing, not insurance, nothing and so I don't want people to sit there and and don't egg on an you know an event because I call them an event, because it's not your, that's not your partner.
Speaker 2:Partners are equal in a relationship and that is not your partner, that is not your spouse, that is not your significant other, because they're not Okay. This is your abuser and you can and will survive and heal. But don't look at them as your equal, because you're not. You are better than them. You do not egg on and attack to get proof. Don't do that. Do not do that.
Speaker 2:You, if you hear him record it, right, you can record on your phone. My buttons on my iphone were 9-1-1, instant button to push for recording. And you know these are the things that you have and you, literally, if you hear them recording, and I mean you're recording them and they're threatening you and there is, like she said, there's somebody else around. That's a terroristic threat and that's a felony. All you have to to make it a terroristic threat and that's a felony. All you have to to make it a terroristic threat. You have to have one other person hear the threat and then it becomes a felony and it's not a.
Speaker 2:He said, she said, and so that's really where it comes and what sucks, and the laws in this country need to freaking drop a pair and get a pair really is the fact that we are the ones that are re-victimized on the stand. We're the ones on the stand that have to go through the trauma all over again when you know it's innocent until proven guilty. No, not in these cases. They want that. Everybody comes after us. Everybody comes after us and wants us to explain what did you do wrong? Why didn't you just make him happy? Why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that or she, whatever case may be, but they don't interrogate the perpetrator.
Speaker 2:Like they, they they literally re-victimize us on the stand and the laws do not protect us.
Speaker 1:No, the laws don't protect us, but I want to. I want to just give a little perspective. I think I mentioned it last time. I've actually spoken on this specific topic on many platforms, because it is extremely significant and I want to make a point and let people understand this that the law isn't always on your side. You know authorities are not always going to work in your favor, and let me tell you a little bit of why. And it's not I'm not saying it's right and I'm not excusing it what you went through was atrocious. What I went through was, I mean, atrocious, inconscionable. It's ridiculous because we are, we are the ones that need protection and we don't get it. But I think it's very, very significant that we have to look at the way society has changed over the generations, because the generation above us where I'm 49, you know I'm Gen X, not too far off of the baby boomer, but baby boomers and up, and a lot of people that were raised by baby boomers you have to understand they come from a time when you don't talk about that stuff. Those are domestic issues that are to be kept behind closed doors.
Speaker 1:Everyone knew that woman, that neighbor down the block, was getting beat to shit Sometimes. Believe me, we had a neighbor that I remember once as a child, like no joke seeing. I remember a bunch of stuff going out being thrown out the second floor window and then a typewriter went flying out and I was a kid and I'm thinking, oh my God, I sometimes play on that lawn outside Like I could have been hit by it and it's not funny. But nobody said anything, nobody talked about it. That was because that's what they were supposed to do back then. And so that mentality. You know, when I look at even my small town that I live in now, we're 90 miles southwest of Chicago. We're not that far. The city is much more advanced. My dad is a retired Chicago cop, so what he has seen and what he has advised me is fine. But that ain't the way it is out here in the sticks, let me tell you, 90 miles is not that far, and 90 miles makes a big difference, because out here you know the 67 year old sheriff that comes around. He's still of the mentality that you know keep that behind closed doors. We don't talk about that. We're not arresting anybody, we're not doing anything. Y'all need to keep it down. Your neighbors can hear you because that's the mentality and to give you guys another little perspective on this. And again, I'm not saying it's right or excusing it, I just want people to understand the mentality.
Speaker 1:The other aspect of this is the Violence Against Women's Act was put out in 1994. The Violence Against Women's Act was put out in 1994. I was in college when this act came out. Prior to that act, in 1994, which was just 30, well, 31 years ago, a woman couldn't file charges against her husband. Right, you couldn't call the cops on your husband. Even if he beat you to a damn pulp, he could kill you honestly and get away with it.
Speaker 1:Not that they don't now, but I think we are still in a time of transition because, again, look at our you know, I look at my husband's 11 years older. He's absolutely a baby boomer, even though he tries to say he's on the border of. He is no Gen X, trust me. He's so baby boomer, but him and his siblings he has. You know he's a younger, he's the fourth out of five siblings younger. His family, generally they're of the mentality that you know. That you know you don't talk about the bad stuff, you keep everything under wraps, and that mentality.
Speaker 1:These are the people that are in higher positions in the police departments, in law enforcement. These are the judges that are in the county circuit courts that are deciding whether you have orders of protection or not. These are the people now in charge of us, we who are fighting for rights that we supposedly have but aren't being honored, and fighting for the laws to work in our favor that have been put in place but aren't being honored. So again, not saying it entitled to, but we still have to fight for it, because the people in charge still think that, you know, a woman couldn't even go get a bank account, a checkbook, a credit card. We can.
Speaker 1:And some of it, I think, is resentment, because when I went for an order of protection, it was denied twice before finally getting one. The older female judge who, oh, she was something else, but she I, you know. I think there's some resentment too, because you wonder, like, did these women go through some situations that they didn't have the rights that we had, that they're like F you, if I had to deal with it, you have to deal with it. So again, I keep saying it I am not defending or excusing it in any way but gosh darn, this is what we're fighting against, and you are never. No law, no act. No, you know, black eye or a baby beaten to a pulp is going to change. I know it's hard, but it's not going to change somebody's mentality when they're 50, 60, 70 years old.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And this is what we're fighting against. I am hopeful that when our children are older I mean I'd like for it to be sooner. But what you and I are doing and what we're advocating for and creating awareness about is so that hopefully over the next number of years we don't have to have our kids fighting for the same justice that we've had to fight for, we don't have to worry that they will suffer injustice like we have, that our exes are walking around in society, uns. I mean I say I have said to my son since he was probably six, seven years old you don't know who's at the gas station while you're pumping gas, you don't know who you're walking by at the Walmart who's. You know parents of your kids. You know friend has just gotten out of jail, or or you know I. I mean you just don't know.
Speaker 1:And if you do, it's even scarier. You know just like I. It's totally off the subject, but I had, you know, a couple of months ago, had somebody kind of mock me and come at me in a hostile way from my past about some things in my book, in my second book, and it was like everybody was like oh, we'll go back at her and tell her this and that Her brother well, yeah, but her brother had been in jail for murder and her sister thought she was a witch and did spells and stuff and this was a vengeful personality.
Speaker 1:I'm not trying to kind of like what you were saying. I'm not trying to poke a sleeping bear. I value my life and there is nothing worth my peace or my energy. Don't give them the energy.
Speaker 2:Whatever?
Speaker 1:Exactly, but you do have to be aware that there are people everywhere and you don't know, and you do have to be very careful and know that the laws and your rights are not always going to be honored and in your favor. So that is why I think it's important for you to listen, you know, to all this advice and all this information. You just have to be aware and have a firm plan, know what your rights are, know what the laws are, but know that they may not be honored, and have a plan just in case they're not.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because that's the reality.
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely, and you think about it. Domestic violence calls the most dangerous call for an officer to respond to. Normally they always try to have a backup officer on scene. They come in and they separate the couple and they take each other's version and then they switch, and then they converse and find out what really happened.
Speaker 2:And what really just boils me honestly, dana, is the fact that more victims get incarcerated than the attackers, and that is not fair. That is not fair because not only is it wrong, because we have the right to self-defend we don't have to just lay there and be someone's playground of punching bags. But if we show that we have defense wounds, and we have defense wounds on the attacker, then they will take us and incarcerate us, and that's not fair. And so that I mean these laws are really need to be changed in this country because they're not protecting us. And then what happens? When they take us out and incarcerate us, then they're leaving the attack person or the attacker with our children. If the children are scenario, if you get some really caring, concerned officers, they'll say dude man, just go somewhere else for the night, come on now, just just exactly.
Speaker 2:You had a heated argument and you're like do you know what you're welcoming? Do you know what's going to happen when he comes back? I mean, he's going to simmer on this and it took a lot for me to have the balls to call the police to begin with. And you're coming in here shooting the crap. You know perfect example is we were coming back, idiot, and I were. We're coming back and he's driving over 100 miles an hour. No kidding, he's driving over 100 miles an hour and we get pulled over by a state trooper and I am thanking the lord at this point and I'm like, finally, because state troopers are a little more abrasive, oh yeah, and I'm thinking, oh, thank you, we finally are gonna get
Speaker 2:because when I say we, I'm talking about faith and I and I'm like, finally, they're gonna see. Well, the state trooper approaches the passenger side of the vehicle, which is perfect, spot on right, and the window is down, and I put my glasses up in my hair and he could just see the whole side of my face, like he knew right, the whole side of my face. And immediately he should be like sir, I need you to turn off the vehicle, take the keys, put them on the dash or throw them out the window step out of the vehicle right.
Speaker 2:First thing hit and let me remind you, his knuckles busted up right, completely busted up. You know, you could see that they obviously were in some sort of altercation. So I am literally thanking the lord above that he got pulled over hands of god not kidding.
Speaker 2:So we're, I'm just like looking over and he goes oh, we're on the way back to the base, I got called and we're on the way back.
Speaker 2:So he flashes a fake badge which is impersonation number one, and he doesn't even the the state trooper doesn't verify, he just looks at the badge and I'm like you could have bought that out of a gumball machine, like I'm literally, and and he just looks, doesn't ask me if I want medical attention, doesn't ask me if I need medical help, because the bruises have a little bit of yellow and a little bit of green, so they're not fresh, right, but his hand has not healed. So obviously let's put two and two together and see that it's not been that long, because his knuckles are still raw. And he turns around and he was like OK, I'm going to go run your license, I'll be right back, sit still. And I'm literally just praying and I'm as quiet as a mouse. And he comes back and he was like hey, while I'm doing all this, why don't you come back with me to my squad car? And I'm like thank you God, thank you God, thank you this. Why don't you come back with me to?
Speaker 1:my squad car and I'm like thank you, god thank you God.
Speaker 2:Thank you God finally. And it and he can't blame me because I'm not at fault for this like I didn't call him. He actually got in a speed trap, but it's still my fault, right? Everything is always our fault, no matter what. So he gets out and he walks him back. I'm looking out the rearview mirror and I'm looking I'm trying to turn around and look as well and I'm looking out the side mirror. Doesn't pat him down, he is carrying. Doesn't pat him down, doesn't do anything, and lets him sit in the front of the squad car in the passenger seat. And I am like are you kidding? Are you kidding? And so he comes back up maybe 20 minutes later and he gets in the car and he looks at me and just laughs and I'm like what Officer, state trooper, comes up beside me and goes ma'am, you need to try not to be so clumsy.
Speaker 2:And my eyes are just like what. My eyes is like what. And he's like you need to try not to be so clumsy, because then your husband wouldn't have, like, busted his hand open on the counter trying to save you when you tried to fall. I've never heard that before. Never, never, ever, ever. How do you bust your knuckles hitting the counter trying to catch your spouse who's?
Speaker 1:falling. They always have a story. They always twist shit to their favor.
Speaker 2:Right. And so I'm in my head, while he's in the squad car, I'm going OK, this is a vehicular pullover, it's a felony stop because it was a 55 and he did, he was doing over 100. It's a felony stop. He's going to impound the car, he's going to release it to me, he's going to be incarcerated. Like I'm going through my mind, going this is it, this is everything right, it's right here. Finally it's going to happen.
Speaker 2:And he comes back over and, idiot, looks at me and puts his card, puts the state troopers card in the console between us and he goes hey, I appreciate it. He goes dude, you're welcome, man, when you get out, let me know and I'll get you hired on with us. And I just sank in the seat. I was like are you kidding? I couldn't say anything. He had given him his business card. I thought it had the case number on the back and we were going through the logistics of it and I said is he getting a ticket? He goes no, it's a felony stop. No, he didn't give him a ticket, didn't give him a warning. No-transcript, a word for him and get him at the academy. He wasn't about to get out and he. That's just what he told him we were free to go. I couldn't believe it. Like this is the crap that happens and people are like, oh, that's only in movies.
Speaker 2:No, it's not they are such a tight-knit group like I'm sitting there in my head going. He's beating his wife. He has to be, because how do you see those knuckles and not immediately try to save and protect the woman? How are you not trying to get her out and say, ma'am, I mean, the proper thing is to put him, search him, put him in the back of the vehicle, seek me to see if I need medical attention, see if I'm okay. You know, just say for my own safety, because this is a felony.
Speaker 2:Stop, sir, for your protection, for mine, I'm going to just place you in cuffs. You're not under arrest at the moment. However, for your protection and mine, I'm just going to go ahead and place you in the back of the vehicle until we sort this out. Right, deescalate the situation all the time, always deescalate the situation, but no, no, and I was dumbfounded at this. So you can do everything, right, you can do everything you're ordered to do, but you're still going to get it taken out on you and the only way to get safe is in your own hands. Like that is in your own hands and there's, you know, there's things that we can tell you. We're not going to advocate and demand that you leave today we're not going to say you know you've got to get out today because it's not our place to say you know, but I went through it alone, she went through it alone.
Speaker 2:You know, we were both single moms and we went through hell and we're giving you what worked for us and what didn't work for us. If you don't have your stuff in order, you don't have a safety plan in place. That's why people go back on average seven times, right? Yes, it's worse, but the most dangerous time in a domestic situation is when you try to leave.
Speaker 1:That is when you try to leave and if and when you actually do leave.
Speaker 2:And there are so many things that we can tell you to help prepare and protect yourself the best way possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I want to say one thing too. I mean what you endured. I mean I always say it's horrific, because it really is, when there's visible signs, because at least, even though it didn't work in your favor, a lot of the time when you have visible signs of domestic violence or any type of abuse, you have more of a leg to stand on. So for those out there listening that are like well, I never had the black eye, he never cut me with a knife, he never shot me, he never did Believe me. That's where I come in.
Speaker 1:That was my frustration. The threat was always there. I had things. Guns were shot, knives were yielded, crowbars were swung. The threat was always there, but I never had any physical sign on my body. I never had the bruises. Well, I shouldn't say that there were a few times I was dragged on the floor, that I had bruises and cuts. That could easily probably be explained away. But when you're trying to get an order of protection, when you're trying to get police protection, when you are trying to just protect yourself and your kid and hope, the authorities are supposed to do their damn job and make sure you're protected and that nothing happens to you. But you've never been stabbed, you've never been punched in the eye, you've never been kicked or you know there's no physical evidence, then society says you're not being abused.
Speaker 2:Even if the threat is there.
Speaker 1:Yes, it absolutely is. But how much harder than is it Like when I went to get an order of protection, when I had called the police and they're like well, you know, I didn't have the black eye, he shot the gun, but he didn't actually shoot me. A bullet did not enter my body and there were times and I know you warned against it. But honestly, I was so desperate for my justice. I remember telling my current husband and this was after my divorce from my ex there was a situation that I'm like you, you know you're abuser, you know something is brewing. And I remember telling my husband I'm going to go over there and provoke him. I know how to push his buttons, I'm going to make him I want to get stabbed, I want to get shot. I wanted to because I thought maybe then, maybe then somebody will fricking listen to me and fr freaking hear me and do something about this. Well, one day, so I'm envious of you.
Speaker 1:I mean it's sad, I and I'm not saying it to be funny or mocking I'm envious of the fact that you did have visible evidence, because that's what I didn't have and I felt like that would help me. But then I hear your story and I'm like, well, shit, excuse my language, people, but fuck, if I had anything on my body, what if he had shot me those three times? Would it have helped? Would it have mattered? What if I had ended up dead? Do you know, my ex would do stupid crap, like he was.
Speaker 1:I always said he wanted to kill me without getting his hands dirty. Without getting his hands dirty, he would pledge our wooden steps in our house, pledge them. So I remember numerous times falling down the stairs and my son like that's why it made me think of it. My son would always say, gosh, you're so clumsy. Yeah, I'm clumsy. They even nicknamed me Gracie. My husband and my son would call me Gracie when I would have a clumsy moment. Yeah, and it's like no, that MF-er, because I actually caught him.
Speaker 1:There were two times over the 25 years that I caught him. He would even do it on the floors pledge, he wasn't trying to clean anything. He wanted me to slip and fall down those stairs and crack my damn neck and say, oh, poor her, she died. Now I get the life insurance. And then he'd he'd thrive on the pity of. Oh, now I'm a single father and I have our son and for me and the crocodile tears and cash in on it and F that, f that. But you have to be careful about these things because whether they're trying to kill you by pledging the stairs or actually punching you in the damn face, the justice is just not always there for us, and that's something that I know. You and I both have people reach out to us all the time that are just at their wits end because I'm going to court for the millionth time or he did this and nothing's being done. No, nothing, nothing often is done.
Speaker 2:Well, one thing I would say, and I'm pretty sure that you would agree with me, is if they do verbally threaten you and anyone is around and can hear, go to the police because it's a terrorist threat, at that point it is a felony and, yes, they might not have put their hands on you, but abuse is abuse and you know what I always say and people look at me and they're like Victoria, are you serious Bruises? Heal Words, don't like. They stay with you forever. You know, I can't tell you how many times he hit me. I mean he testified. If he hit me once, he hit me 200 and that's his mouth, right, so you don't remember every single one.
Speaker 2:But some of the words they never leave you. And if he or she threatens you and says I'm going to you, know whatever, and there's another person around, call the police, because then it's a terroristic threat, because you have to have a witness and you have one and that's a felony. And you know, yes, it's harder to prove when you don't have marks of indication on your person, but a felony for a terroristic threat is still a felony, right, and it gets a report done and these are things that can get done. I hate our laws for domestic violence. I think they need to be changed. I would love to try to start doing that.
Speaker 2:I would love to try to make our way to making new laws, because that needs to be done. We are not protected as a society and I don't know what else we can do when it comes to protecting ourself and our children. Right, I mean, we have our own right to protect our kids and ourself, and we don't have the legal or law enforcement protection that is rightfully due to us?
Speaker 1:No, we don't, and we're women and the laws have worked against us over generations. So I want to put a little shout out there, though, for our male listeners, because I think that it's. I mean, I can't even imagine we're trying to fight for our rights as women, and imagine being a man that's being abused and it happens.
Speaker 2:Especially in the gay community, they get such a hard time. I have my heartbreak.
Speaker 1:Especially in heterosexual communities, though, do you know? Yes, if an officer is called to a domestic, and you know what, if it's a little woman like me, a hundred pounds, five, three, and you have a big. You know my husband's six, four, he's almost six, five actually, but two, 20, six, five, two, 20. And oh, my wife gave me this black eye. Those officers are laughing there. I mean, I'm not saying all of them.
Speaker 1:Those men have been made fun of and laughed and oh, she can't. I actually had once that didn't end up in the book either. But an officer show up and he was actually just as tall as my current husband. But he, you know, officer, wants to speak to you out on the porch and I'm like, what the hell did I do? And I go out there. I let no-transcript that you were.
Speaker 1:I forgot what the threat was, but that I was like abusing somebody or threatening somebody who's like, oh, you obviously couldn't do anything to him and I couldn't believe that son of a bucket and all I was doing was giving my son a fricking bath that night. I had no idea. But they, you know, but narcissists, always try to set you up, you know, to give the impression. But it was just like. When I look at that situation, I mean thank God that you know I, you know the officer didn't believe it, for you know a lick of it. But I mean the fact that he, literally, as a man calling abuse on you, know that his wife is abusing him and that's what the officer did Literally looked me up and down and started laughing and imagine what he might've gone back and told his fellow officers and said when he got back to the station. So what justice are men getting?
Speaker 1:I have a lot of men come forward to me, both, you know, heterosexual and homosexual or bisexual or whatever sexual, and homosexual or bisexual or whatever sexual, and you know they're kind of they feel like ashamed that they were abused, and many of them I thought it was interesting, a lot of them that have come forward to me at least have been military, they're former military and these are like bad-ass mother truckers like that have been in wars and have actually had to, you know, shoot guns at people and kill people and they've been abused, whether it's financially or sexually or however, or physically even, and it's just really sad to me that it doesn't matter. You can't even win if you're a guy. You can win if you're the abuser and you happen to have military or law enforcement connections that will ensure that you get off. But what's worse about that? I mean, I love 48 hours. It's like I fall asleep to it every night. It's really kind of a trauma response, but it's my thing.
Speaker 1:Um, but it's weird because a lot of the time I mean these there are. A lot of the time I mean there are a lot of men that, like you said, are in the military or in law enforcement. They know the laws, they know the loopholes and they know how to get around it, and oftentimes you do see a prevalence in that, because if it's just a civilian, even if they're really well I don't want to say intelligent. But even if they know how to get around certain things, they don't know everything and they don't have the connection. So eventually they're caught, even if they are smart about it. But you have to stay a step ahead. You always you know your abuser best. Think how they think. I always said that I hated what my ex turned me into.
Speaker 1:At the time I had to be just as secretive and dishonest and manipulative, but I had to if I was going to survive and I don't regret a moment of it because I am standing here and I'm alive and you're here and your daughter's here, and you know we want everybody else to be able to continue to live their lives and move past their circumstances, if you're still in them.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely Absolutely. Circumstances if you're still in them yes, absolutely Absolutely. And a couple other things that we were talking about. People are asking how they can protect themselves as they're getting ready to get out. You can go in and change your. So I'm looking at some of the questions here, so I'm reading some of them. You know how can we protect ourself online? You know you can change your social media. You can change your social media settings. You can adjust all of your profiles to a privacy on social media and that limits what your partner can see. If you do post, remember you don't know who's in his pocket, metaphorically, where you might put something out there and you can choose who sees it. Like you can name certain friends who sees it and certain people who cannot, but you don't know if the ones that can see it are going back to him and telling him. So really, make sure what you're putting out there is so important to you that you feel you have to put it out there.
Speaker 2:You know, sometimes even taking a little hiatus is not such a bad thing.
Speaker 2:Changing all new accounts, you know is is very normal and it's actually something I suggest doing. You need to check your accounts regularly for any unauthorized transactions or transitions. I do the double factor on anything when you log in, like and it's a pain in the butt, it is like, but if you go into, say, my Instagram, you have to have two tier factor to log in and that way it's just an extra setting, like it has to go to your cell phone and they give you a code and you put the code in or you know you could do that on almost anything now, like your Google account. You can do that where you have to. You know even my Canva account. I know that's so tedious and ridiculous, but I that's just our mindset, cause that's who we are and what we've been through is that I've always put it that way and I do that because I work with so many amazing people and I don't want any of their information to go into anyone's hand. That's not supposed to so.
Speaker 2:I always make sure that there's two factor verification everywhere, but you can do that as well. You can also use a specific messaging app. I don't have any of the names of them right in front of me, but they are out there that are encrypted and that will help.
Speaker 1:Can I just say one thing on that Facebook Messenger is actually one of the worst.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it is.
Speaker 1:It's not used to message, so I would just be aware of that. If you are on any Wi-Fi network, even at your kid's school, that information is accessible. And I would also say I agree with the two-factor authorization. I actually have mine set. I know you can choose Mine's a fingerprint access on all the apps on my phone and everything. And I have my phone locked. My computer is locked with a password. I know my son has his phone where it has to look at your eyeball, his eyeball or whatever. So you know there's ways, there's facial recognition, there's all kinds of ways you can protect your stuff, but you should have it all on lockdown 100%.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and you know we have so many requests to go over and talk about so many other important other things. But another thing I want to mention, because I just was thinking about earlier when you were talking, is when you do, when or if you do and you go get somewhere else. You know, luckily a lot of prices have gone down on a lot of things.
Speaker 2:And you can go to Amazon. You could even do Teemu, believe it or not. Make sure you do your Rakuten or your Retail Me, Not because they give you price back, cash back percentages, but I even even in our home now we have the keypad where you punch in a code so they can't get a copy of your key, don't?
Speaker 2:do your birthday or your dad? Your dad, mom or child's date of birth, don't do anything like that. But I took it one step further and I got one that has a fingerprint on it right, so you can do fingerprint you also.
Speaker 2:They also now come where they can do it by phone, so you can check your phone even in bed at night. Make sure that it's locked, uh, that your door is locked. My front door I have. I have the code on it, I have the fingerprint on it and once I shut it it locks automatically. So like if I'm running into the house and I shut the door and I'm trying to grab faith or whatever, it locks by itself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had that at my old house, but it was phenomenal. I always loved hearing that annoying grinding of the lock.
Speaker 2:I always loved hearing that annoying grinding of the lock, but it was it was safety to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I would also. I'm a big fan of, I mean. What saved me after the two incidences of domestic violence was for 99, 99. I got a three camera blink system off at Amazon. And let me tell you those three little cameras. They sense any motion If a leaf flies by. I got an alert on my phone, but I had video and audio and I put all three cameras up.
Speaker 1:And let me tell you, when I put those up and he knew he was being watched, it's amazing how angelic he suddenly became. Nothing ever happened after that. Now did I catch other things? Yeah, there were still verbal altercations and things, but the actual physical attempts against me did stop. But I always felt better that even if something had happened, even if it was just the audio, it would catch it. It's in a recording and even if the phone was smashed to bits, it can be accessed through the blink system.
Speaker 1:So, be aware of that. The ring doorbells, the whatever.
Speaker 2:Costco has a great set. Yeah, we got them, you can find them anywhere, now, anywhere.
Speaker 1:And let me tell you I am not technologically. If there's anyone out there is like I'm not good with it, I can't like I and I let me backtrack to this just to say how technologically inept I have been. I didn't even well because this is relevant to what you were saying about apps and passcodes and social media my ex had me so isolated. You know narcissism is in 101 is isolation. I didn't have any kind of a smartphone until after the divorce in 2000 and went late, like I'm talking, november, december of 2020.
Speaker 1:I got my first smartphone. So I did not even have a smartphone. I still had the little slider thing. I didn't even have emojis. There was no computer online access. I couldn't get apps. I didn't even know what a podcast was. Never heard one in my life. He didn't like me on the computer. He didn't like me reading books. Even so, I had no access to anything. But these days I don't even think they have a 3G network anymore. You have to be on 4G or 5G.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So you have to have a smartphone, thank God. But for those that might be out there, or if you know somebody, just don't assume that somebody has access to anything and it is almost better. I was almost glad, actually, that I didn't have access to social media. I was never on it and honestly, I wouldn't be on it now. It is not my wish, but being an author and a speaker and a podcaster and all that, you get on social media. But I would just say, if you, if you don't have to be on it, you don't, I would get off of it.
Speaker 1:Because even with the smartphones I mean anywhere I go, anywhere anyone goes your smartphones are picking up on everybody around you. If you're right, if somebody comes to your house, you have a meeting with somebody professionally, you're near somebody in line at a long line at the grocery store. Suddenly in your social media and on your phone, oh, people you may know and you're like I don't know any of these damn people, but there are contacts from other people's phones. So even if you have a different name or something just saying it might come up. You know, ooh, sorry, there was a big thunder, we're expecting severe storms today and I think they're here.
Speaker 2:It just like the whole ground and everything just we're going to cut this short in a minute because I'm not losing this, because we've already had to redo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I knew it was coming and that's why I wanted to get our recording in, because, yeah, the kittens and I might need to go downstairs. They're saying it's going to get pretty bad, but I live in a fortress. Thank God, my husband built me a wonderful, beautiful place, but the basement is the place to be for the rest of of today, so I think we're going to go down there and I'll play ping pong with the kitties and, uh, watch the weather okay yeah we'll be fine.
Speaker 1:We always are. Like I said, even if a tornado were to come through, this place is is very solid. I would not want to be anywhere else, but um, yeah that that thunder was the first one, the first sign of the storm, and just shook everything. So, whoo, yeah, we're about to cut it off, but I always and everybody catches me when I'm podcasting or hosting or interviewing.
Speaker 2:We have monitors in my office and we have nine cameras out just outside alone and it covers every inch of all of our property and it's also a piece of mind because we hooked. It's also a peace of mind because we hooked it up to a tell, to televisions, and I'm sitting here in the office and like anytime somebody drives by or whatever, I can see, you know who they are, what they're doing and whatever. And it's it's. It's really a peace of mind to be able to look at it and be like, okay, everything's cool, you know we're good and to know that, but it's also recorded and backed up on on.
Speaker 2:you know it's on device here and we pay for that and that peace of mind is is incredible. And not to mention if you do own your own place and you tell your insurance people that you know you have cameras you know, you get discounts, so there's plenty of reason for it, right?
Speaker 2:So, that being said, we are going to get Dana to safety because she needs to get downstairs with turbo and my cute little, and we are going to keep getting to these questions and and I love all of the input everybody's giving me. I really appreciate it. I know Dana does as well. Keep reaching out to both of us and we are here and you are not alone.
Speaker 1:Amen, we'll see you next time.
