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A Contagious Smile Podcast
A Contagious Smile is a powerful platform dedicated to uplifting and empowering special needs families and survivors of domestic violence. Through heartfelt stories, we shine a light on the journeys of extraordinary individuals who have overcome unimaginable challenges. Their triumphs serve as a testament to resilience and strength, inspiring others to rediscover their own inner light. Each episode features candid interviews with survivors, advocates, and experts who provide valuable resources and insights to support those on their own paths to healing and empowerment. Join us as we celebrate the power of resilience, the beauty of shared stories, and the unstoppable spirit of those who turn adversity into hope. Let us guide you in rekindling your spirit, because every smile tells a story of courage and transformation.
A Contagious Smile Podcast
Breaking Through Darkness Trigger Warning
What happens when the people who should love you most become your greatest source of pain? In this raw and unfiltered Q&A episode, Dana and Victoria tackle the toughest questions about narcissistic family relationships sent in by listeners desperately seeking answers.
The conversation dives deep into the psychological warfare experienced within toxic family systems—from feeling responsible for others' behavior to questioning your very right to exist. Both hosts share vulnerable personal experiences that reveal the universal patterns of narcissistic abuse, creating powerful moments of validation for anyone who's ever felt alone in their suffering.
"You don't have to prove anything to anybody," Victoria states emphatically when addressing how to handle judgment from others. This becomes a recurring theme throughout the episode—the gradual reclaiming of personal power and the liberation that comes from setting boundaries with those who refuse to see your truth.
One particularly moving segment addresses a young listener questioning their worth, with both hosts offering heartfelt validation that transcends age, gender identity, and circumstance. "You are here because you were meant to be here," Dana affirms, reminding us that our existence isn't justified by others' approval but by our inherent value as human beings.
The episode doesn't shy away from difficult topics like suicidal thoughts and feelings of worthlessness, approaching these subjects with compassion while offering practical perspectives on moving forward. Dana and Victoria emphasize that healing isn't linear—even they still experience moments of doubt—but the difference is in recognizing these as echoes of past trauma rather than accurate reflections of reality.
Whether you're discovering these dynamics for the first time or well along your healing journey, you'll find validation, clarity, and hope in this powerful conversation. Reach out to Dana or Victoria through social media if you're struggling—they're committed to supporting this community through every step of recovery.
Good evening and welcome to another episode of Narg. Narg, who's there? Help, I'm gasping for air. Dana and I are here today and we have my stucco and Uno and Rusty and Faith is in here. It's crazy crowded. So we are doing a Q&A session today because we have been just overwhelmed with the questions that you guys have sent and we appreciate it so, so much where we hit over 10 million. Just thought you'd like to know gosh, that's insane.
Speaker 2:I say it every time, but it's exciting that our message is getting out, but just kills me that so many people are experiencing this stuff. But I am very excited about today because you and I have shared our experiences over and over and 100 times over again, but we love knowing what questions the audience has and what you guys want to know. So we are going to definitely be answering some questions today, and you said a lot of them.
Speaker 1:Huh, there are we might have to do a second episode on this, but I want to put out first a trigger notice because, like all of our shows, there's going to be something in there that could trigger. Also, anybody who knows me and works with me knows that I'm very big on confidentiality, so I've taken everybody's questions. I have not put anybody's name down with the questions so that you will not be identified, because I'm very big on keeping who you are and where you are confidential. So just listen for your question and if I didn't get them this time, I will make sure we read them on the next episode and if we have even more than that, we'll do another one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have written them in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've written down every question that was written to us up until Monday night. So yeah, so it's. It's about 1112 pages.
Speaker 2:Oh my Okay, good, good, good, good. This. This means people have questions, they're listening, they're paying attention, they're aware of what's going on in their lives, and awareness is the first step in trying to figure out how you can get out of your situation or at least deciding whether you should. So this is good stuff. But, yes, thank you for saying about the confidentiality too, because I think it's important that everybody knows that you and I are all about creating a safe space for people. We don't want anyone to ever feel worried or threatened that somebody might find anything out, because we unfortunately are, you know, in those same situations, even still sometimes. So we don't want to put anyone in a predicament. So we will be very respectful today, going forward in the past.
Speaker 1:So it's all good, and also, there are some questions personalized to the two of us and and I'm pretty sure that I can speak for Dana and she can correct me if I'm wrong we are 100% open. I'll answer anything that you guys have to the best of my ability, and I'm sure that Dana feels the same way.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty clear. You have read my books, I. You know it's not always nice stuff, it's not always stuff that's easy to admit or things we definitely, you know, necessarily want people to know. But we're all human and I think that it's okay to own our experiences and to own our feelings. So, yeah, we're going to share, we're going to be open about it and, you know, hopefully that'll inspire everyone else to be the same with themselves.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I love it, and we've had a lot of comments just thanking us for being so open and the voice for the voice listen. So it means the world to us that you guys have reached out and keep reaching out, because even if we get through all these and then we do multiple episodes, if I see questions out of nowhere, we'll put it in a show, we will get them, we'll get your questions answered. So let's, let's go and we'll figure out who is going to answer which questions. Let's go. How do you handle everyone talking and looking down at you?
Speaker 2:Easy. I don't you know why? Because I don't have to prove anything to anybody. I, you know, it's funny. I just answered this question to somebody yesterday. I used to care, I used to feel like I had to defend myself. And here's proof. You have been there too. Here is solid, factual, written evidence, legal proof.
Speaker 2:People will believe what they want to believe about you. So give it up, because let me tell you, if they are willing and open to believing crap about you and not willing to give you the respect of letting you explain yourself not that you should have to but if they don't even know you well enough to know it's a lie, forgive me, but to hell with them. You got to have enough self-respect to just set that boundary and say this person obviously wants to believe this about me and that's okay. And honestly, I'm not a mean, vengeful person, but every once in a while I just kind of roll with it.
Speaker 2:There was a rumor, which is disgusting actually, that I got pregnant by my husband before we got married so that I could trap him in a marriage. Well, we're going on three and a half what? Three and a half years of marriage. I am, you know, barely over a hundred pounds. I look fabulous for being pregnant and I will say that to people. I don't care. If people want to believe it, let them believe it. If they want to think that I trapped him, well, lucky me, I live in a beautiful house, I have a very cute husband who treats me very well. So if I trapped him then oh well, good for me, I guess, but I don't care. That's how I deal with it. Can I go to the baby shower? I would love to have a baby shower, I know right, because I want all the gifts Because there's no baby.
Speaker 1:Right, all right. When did you realize that this really wasn't your fault?
Speaker 2:Recently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're still working on it. I'm still working on it, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I want to be clear on this because I'm not being funny. You know I was raised by two narcissists. I spent 25 years in a relationship and then marriage with one. I didn't even know what a narcissist was until just about the end of my marriage. I mean, what kid knows what I mean? Really, when I was a kid I knew it was abuse, I knew it was wrong, but I didn't know. It was two narcissists that were abusing me and even in my marriage it was so insidious and I didn't.
Speaker 2:They're so tricky the way they go about it. Unless it's outright physical or sexual, something that is definitively abuse. Some of the abuses are a little sneakier, like you don't recognize them and they go about it in a way that you don't. You're not seeing it as as what it really is, as a manipulative. You know tactic to control you and so it's okay. I want everybody to know it's okay, even if you don't recognize it, even if you were in it and you never saw it, and it's okay. Your gut will tell you it doesn't feel right. That unsettling feeling you have is telling you something isn't right. That's all you need to know.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Oh okay, this question is for both of us. I've just been. When they ask questions, if they say this is for Dana, then I'll be specific about it. If it's for both, I'll say that, and if there isn't a person identified they want an answer from, we'll just go for it. This is for you. What was the earliest memory of feeling different from your family?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, it was, it was very early. It was, I want to say, right about three years old, four years old, because I would hear them referring to me as an accident and a mistake. And I was watching Sesame Street and the great space coaster and I knew in cartoons there's a mom and there's a dad and there's the babies. And I had great grandma and she rocked me and soothed me. I lived with her, she fed me, she. I loved her very much and she loved me like a mother should.
Speaker 2:But I knew I didn't have a mother and I had even asked as you read it, probably in choking, on shame, you know, when I said to her cause I was in preschool and a little girl said how come you weren't at the daddy daughter dance? And I was just, I didn't think anything of it. I'm like well, I don't have a dad. So how could I go to a daddy daughter dance? And she's like but everybody has a dad. And I'm like but I don't. And then I asked my mother and she's like you don't have a father, you don't need to worry about it, because it was a tough subject. So I think that it was very early on, but unfortunately it, just it's.
Speaker 2:It was like a theme in my life. I was always the one that was different. I didn't ever belong, I didn't ever fit, but it's okay. I don't have to fit and it's taken me 48 years. But I'm perfectly fine being the unique little flower in the garden that I am, because I am finding other unique flowers like you that we can just bloom and shine and thrive together. But it is hard growing up that way, especially when you have both parents against you. School sucked, home sucked everywhere. I turned it sucked, but it's okay.
Speaker 1:Well, to the individual who wrote this it was a young lady I will tell you that if you really want an insight and she's going to be like, why do you keep doing this? Her book is so insightful, it's honestly. It makes you feel like you're right there when it's going on. Like you, literally, when she started talking about you know her mom and the daddy daughter dance, I immediately went back to that part of the book and, like you, literally go through it and you can feel like you're there and it's heart wrenching. So you really feel like you are in the moment. You feel like you are experiencing it, as it happens. So her books are amazing I mean amazing and everybody should go out and read them because you really get a really good inside experience when you're reading her work, which is amazing, and I keep telling her she has to keep writing and keep writing and writing. Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 2:Yes, ma'am, I'm working on it. Book three is coming. I have to catch up with you. But yes, thank you for that question, because I think it is something that I don't think it's. It necessarily happens when you're going through puberty as a teenager or whatever. So for some people it does, but for me it was. It was right right off the bat, my earliest memories.
Speaker 1:So I'm reading all of these questions how do you feel when you think about your family now?
Speaker 2:I feel indifferent is how I'm going to say it, but it has taken me a lot of work, a lot of help that I wasn't always too eager to accept. But when I say work, I think I've said it before. But when you go to, you know, whatever kind of therapy you choose because talk therapy isn't necessarily always the best thing for everybody but whatever therapy you choose, make sure it's effective, because if it is, it is work, it is excruciating, it is painful. It's not just going and talking to somebody every Thursday at three o'clock and then all of a sudden you feel better. It is constant 24, seven. Even when you're working, sleeping, eating.
Speaker 2:Stuff is going on in your subconscious, in the back of your mind. You're dreaming stuff up, you're recalling repressed memories. There is just nastiness and awfulness. But at the end, once you get through that storm and that muck of it, there is like a light, there's the rainbow and the sunshine after that storm, where you realize wait a second, that all was awful and I didn't deserve it.
Speaker 2:But once you kind of figure out and realize that it was not necessarily about you personally, even if you personally were the only child in the home that was abused and the others were not. Even if you were the one that was told you will not be loved, you are not enough. You, you, you, you, you. It is not personal. And once you figure that out, that your experience is not unique because you have had experiences that are similar to mine, as obviously all these other people that are listening can relate it is not unique to us. There's nothing uniquely deficient about any individual one of us. It is the people that abused us that have the problem and they just decided that we were going to be the vessels for, you know, to unleash their own resentment and their bitterness and anger and awfulness.
Speaker 2:But once you figure that out, you can kind of realize that you had your human experience. They're having their own human experience. They're obviously not in the same area of self-awareness that you're in and some people will never be and some people will never be open to it. But that is their life experience. This is mine. So I don't wish them ill, wish things hadn't gone down the way that they had. But they're living their life, I'm living mine and that's all there is to it. And once you can get to that place, you're just indifferent. I always say, when you can get to a place where it's like walking past somebody at Walmart that you don't know they are not affecting you. Then you're good.
Speaker 1:Yes, and what a great way to go into this question for both of us. How do you celebrate your individuality in a family that doesn't accept it?
Speaker 2:Well, why don't you answer that, because I'm doing a lot of talking? Well, this is for both of us.
Speaker 1:This is for both of us. I celebrate my individuality as a person who advocates for people in the beginning of their journey. I don't like the word victim. I like the word survivor, because you have conquered it and you've come through it. You are so much stronger than you have any idea it. You are so much stronger than you have any idea.
Speaker 1:Um, most of my entire life I remember that I would hear things like oh well, you know, I am so attractive, I turn heads, you turn stomachs and you know you're hideous and ugly. Nobody's ever gonna want you. Or like freddy krueger and the elephant man had a baby and here you are and yeah, and so like, you're so unattractive and all of these scars. And hey, if you're bored, let me give you a Sharpie marker and you can play. Connect the dots and you'll be busy for hours and just one thing after another, after another, and then forever. I would just sit there and think why, why am I not? I didn't ask to come in this world. I didn't ask to be born. I definitely didn't ask to be born to them. You know, I swear my grandmother had another baby and just never wanted to tell me it was me and that you go about and then you realize you know what. I've given them enough time. I've given them enough of me and it's enough, like I'm done.
Speaker 1:For the longest time I would apologize for their actions, even if it had nothing to do with me. But I was always at fault. I was always the one there blamed, even if I wasn't even around when whatever happened transpired. And I would always follow the sword and say I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry for something. I wasn't even around. For Some of the time I wasn't even in the same state, but I'd be blamed for something that happened a state away and I wasn't even there.
Speaker 1:So now faith has taught me so much. And you know it's so ironic because people are like oh, she's a child and you know we're supposed to teach her and I've dedicated my life to her. But there's nobody who's ever met her that she can't teach a lesson to, because she teaches everybody, everything, and I mean she does it without even realizing she's doing it. And what I've said to her from day one is I've given you everything that my biological parents never gave me, and that's how I knew I wanted to be and I wanted to emulate the care and love that I had from my grandparents and she never deserved anything that I endured. And so you know, she's always said to me you're nothing like them, and that is the best compliment in the world when it comes from her letting me know that. So I celebrate the fact that the footsteps that they gave, no matter how horrible and hard that they were, taught me to walk in the opposite direction.
Speaker 2:I love that and I want to add on to that that I think it's important for us to how should I put this? I think, societally, like, we have this expectation. Like I said when I was a kid, I'm watching cartoons, I'm watching shows. You know, we all watch the Cosby show and all you know a mom and a dad are supposed to be in the house and they're supposed to love their kids and they're supposed to, supposed to supposed to. Well, guess what? Nobody has to do anything.
Speaker 2:I don't know who decided that in this world that moms and dads are sometimes moms and dads don't love their kids or they just don't love one of them. It is what it is and I think, part of celebrating our individuality and accepting the fact that we maybe aren't like our family, maybe we're not, you know, accepted or necessarily fit right in. It's okay, because there are other people who accept me, just fine, and I wouldn't want anyone to love me or accept me out of obligation. Anyway, I want them to do it because it's in their heart to, because we connect, because we share, because we're passionate about the same things, because we like qualities about each other. So, like for me, I also like to separate the fact that, yes, my mother gave birth to me and, yes, I was put in a house with her and her husband and it was awful and it was what it was.
Speaker 2:But I am here. I don't even go so far as to say I'm a victim or a survivor. I'm just me, I'm just Dana, just like you're Victoria, and faith is faith. And guess what? God decided I should be here and I'm here and God saved me in a million circumstances, just like he saved you and he saved faith. And we are here and we have gifts, we have talents, we have things that we can share with other people and share with the world. And if my family doesn't like that, then oh well. I mean I, I'm sad that my mother doesn't see. You know how much I've accomplished and recognize you know what an amazing daughter she has. But there are other people who are glad to have me in their life.
Speaker 2:And, yes, exactly, just so everyone knows, I think, that Victoria and I were separated at birth. Yes, you got the cool red hair. I did not. But no, but that's a beautiful thing and that's what I'm speaking about. But no, but that's a beautiful thing and that's what I'm speaking about. There is love. It sounds like an awful thing to say, but you know what, just because you're born to somebody does not mean you're going to get along inherently, and it's wonderful when, like you can have, you have a beautiful relationship with faith, and I love that. You guys have that mother-daughter relationship that everybody should have, but not everybody has that. But everybody has a friend. Everybody has a grandma or somebody that cares about them and loves them just for who they are, and that's what we should focus on.
Speaker 1:Don't bother yourself, wasting energy or even thought on people that just refuse to have you in their lives, right, and what I love is, before we started recording, faith was in here and the minute that Dana joined in, faith was like it was the cutest thing ever. She loves her. She's like, have you talked to her today? Because she's at a book signing and I'm like I know where she is, smarty pants, thanks for letting me know. And she's like, oh, I could tell you said hi, if you want, because I'm chatting with her. Like what you just said really resonated. You know, I don't know if you thought about this, but this just really just came to me the, the cosby show. Okay, we grew up watching the cosby show and okay, let's, let's put that out there as a great metaphor, because the cosby show had a loving mom and dad who had these kids and they were very interactive in their life.
Speaker 1:But then let's say that's the general public behind closed doors. Look at Bill Cosby, right, look at what Bill Cosby was doing behind quote unquote closed doors to all of these people, these kids, these women, just like you know. I mean that is what an example that that really is that you go and watch it. Now I can't even look at Bill Cosby, like you know. I mean that is what an example that that really is that you go and watch it now. I can't even look at bill cosby. Like you know, I loved the show growing up and now I'm like wow, because he was the jello guy. You know, he was the guy that everybody loved on the outside, but cameras off, such as door shut this is who he was. When the doors were shut, the cameras were off and you were at home. I mean, what better analogy of narcissistic behavior is there than that, right there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's a lot of people and we're all let's be real we're all guilty of it. I mean I don't go like let neph bombs drop in front of my. Well, okay, one of my priests I do, cause he's cool, but like some of my priests that do like I wouldn't talk like that to the elderly ladies at church. You know what I mean. Like we all have a certain mask that we wear in certain areas of our life. But yeah, I mean even taking the nastiness out of it.
Speaker 2:Look at, like Robin Williams, funny guy, always the part you know life of the party, very energetic and high vibing and funny, oh my gosh. But he was so sad and depressed and like I can relate to that. You put me on, put a camera on me. I mean my husband says it all the time I light up, I have my energy, I just kind of go with it.
Speaker 2:You know, I almost feel like I have imposter syndrome sometimes, because then there's days where I'm just Dana here at home, living normal life, and something triggers me and I get depressed and then I'm in bed for a day crying, and then I have a migraine and then I'm getting so sick, ruminating about whatever it is that I feel like I'm going to throw up. And you know we all have this behind the scenes thing, but yeah, I mean the narcissist. The problem is the abusive ones when they have this behind the scenes character versus the public character. It's literally Chucky, that's my go-to reference, you know. Oh, look at me, the good guy, you know, the good guy, doll, I'm going to be your best friend, andy, and yeah, then everybody's getting murdered and butcher, knifed and scary stuff, and literally this is literally what sometimes goes on behind closed doors, but they're all put together in public and it's a scary thing to deal with and people don't believe us and that's what's so frustrating.
Speaker 1:That is so true. What qualities do you value most in a friendship?
Speaker 2:Truth, honesty, safety.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I couldn't add anything to that.
Speaker 2:Loyalty, honesty, yeah I think it comes with it Exactly, and I think it comes down to like the way I tell people is like I, the people in my life that I let in close to me, I'm going to say stupid stuff, I'm going to make mistakes, I'm going to maybe do something that even I think is cringy, but my people are still going to love me and they might say yes, dana, that was cringy, or don't do that, you shouldn't do that, don't say that, that you're better than that. But that's OK, it's not going to trigger me, it's not judging or demeaning me, but you got my back, no matter what I say or do, and that's safety. I know you're not going to abandon or reject me. Is it hard to keep people in your life? And if you do, how do you let them in?
Speaker 1:I'll let you take that one. That's a lot, thanks, thanks a lot. I literally have a hard time because people that have been in my life for 10, 15, 20 years all of a sudden take the mask off. Then I hadn't expected it. I mean, even people who were taking care of Faith and her medical team took the mask off out of nowhere and wasn't expected, and that shocked me.
Speaker 1:The one thing you always have with me is consistency, and I always tell people. You know, and Faith says the same thing. If I have to say anything about my mom, she will tell you the truth and piss you know, and faith does the same thing. If I have to say anything about my mom, she will tell you the truth and piss you off, then lie to make you happy, which is true, because then you don't have to remember the truth, it just comes out. You don't have to say, well, what did I say to cover that or what did I say to you know? No, and the thing is is that it is so hard for me to let people in, and then you're always worried about like are they gonna just? Is it? Is it going to be today, is it going to be tomorrow? Is it going to be next week when they turn around and show their true colors To me?
Speaker 1:I only have a very small group of good female friends that I know and love and feel comfortable with, and of course, dana is is absolutely in there I I have issues with. Like one of the things that I do is I had a good friend who was going through some major stuff and every single day I would ask her is she okay? Is she okay or is she okay? And I would listen to her for hours, just go on and on about everything that was going on, and not once did she say how are you or how are things with you or how are things going with you, and it didn't even matter what was going on with me. It didn't matter. But no matter what I was going through, I would still message and say are you okay? What's going on?
Speaker 2:you're very good at that. Yeah, you know you're hearing and that's part of your nature, and a lot of people get so caught up in their problems that they they don't consider the other person.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's hard. You got to be able to trust that person. And then you build the wall. I tell everybody, do I have a wall, absolutely, but it's got a little tiny like dwarf door and you come in and then the wall gets built and the wall doesn't keep people out, it keeps them in. And you know, that's such a big difference. I keep the people that I really care and love in and the thing is, I will go to bat and do anything I can for anybody in my inner circle, without question. And the thing is is that you have to allow yourself that friendship and happiness and that comfortability. And the one thing that really sucks is that you have to go through this dramatic trauma that we've both been through before you really recognize a true, genuine soul, because they get it, they understand it and they have your back without judgment. They listen, they understand, and that is something that you will never find unless you've unfortunately walked this this.
Speaker 2:That is 100% true. I want to share, though. Remember I told you I had something I was invited to, that I normally would just group of people. So I'll give everybody a little backstory because I feel like it's very relevant and I want to share a little experience I had the other night my husband's family I won't give away too much because it's a whole thing. It's actually a main subject of my third book that I'm almost done with Victoria. I swear to God, I'm almost done with it.
Speaker 2:But let me just say that I liked them very much, knew them 20 years. Everything was great. My husband and I got together. It was just like perfect. Happily ever after Should have been until the one gal and his sister-in-law, who I was friends with for 16 years, decided that she didn't like that.
Speaker 2:Everybody was happy that I was going to be part of the family. There wasn't room enough, apparently, for both of us, so she literally rallied. These people, told them the most atrocious and vicious lies, and I mean it kept going. It's still going years, it's for years now, to the point where they actually had an intervention with my husband to try to stop him from marrying me. Anyway. Stop him from marrying me Anyway, obviously not very good vibes between me and the family. It's hard not to take offense to that one, especially after all the things I've been through.
Speaker 2:You want to talk about a wall? I've got a big wall up there. You have the great wall of Dana A few times, so I am usually not invited to their family events. I am actually there, you know. They even speak about me. We live in a small town, unfortunately, and I'm not a real wife because I'm not his first wife and I'm a replacement wife and I'm not really part of the family. I hear all this crap.
Speaker 2:Anyway, there was something the other night. In memory of my husband's father who passed away last was something that was very personal for my husband. I should, as his wife, be there and support him, regardless of how these people felt about me. So it was one of these things where I had to put my pride aside and say, ok, I got to put my big girl panties on and go to this thing, but I had to set parameters and this is what I wanted to share with people, because this isn't a story about look at me and what I did, but it's about showing people.
Speaker 2:I set a boundary first, with my husband saying you are my person. Like you are going to be my only ally in this room of 40 people that have literally gone to great lengths to remove me. I need you to. You got to back me up if anybody says anything. Number two I want to drive separately because I need to know that if I feel that anxious or uncomfortable, I want a way out, I want an escape. It's not me trying to give in, to fight or flight, but I should only have to tolerate so much. So I said give me that respect. Is that okay? And I wanted him to be part of this decision. I didn't want to just be like this is how it's going to go. He agreed and he understood and even told me are you sure you want to go? And I said this is something that's important to you. I need to show up for you and this is for your dad. God rest his soul. So I went. But the thing is, when I've gone to his family in the past very few times, I sit in the corner, I let them be over there and I'm over here, and that there is a great big divide. But you know what I said screw that. This time. I was feeling a little bold, but you know what? I am not going to shrink myself down for other people. I am going to take up as much space as God allows me to. But you know what An interesting thing happened.
Speaker 2:I walked in there being just who I would be with you, with faith, with anyone else that I felt safe with, even though there was this part of me that was very nervous. And I said hi to people, even people that were pointedly not looking at me and acting like I wasn't there. Hey, what's new in your life? To me it was almost like an experiment, because I had nothing to lose. Right Interesting thing happened. People were talking to me. People were then coming up to me and, oh, look at, my granddaughter started preschool today. Look at her picture. And they were joking with me, and they were even when people were saying goodbye, bye, bye, so and so Bye, so it's bye Dana. It's like, oh, we're acknowledging me now.
Speaker 2:But it's funny because I wasn't acting weird, I wasn't acting awkward, I wasn't isolating myself and walking around with this barrier around me, like don't look at me and don't talk to me because you're not going to anyway. I didn't go in there assuming that there was this divide and assuming everybody didn't like me and assuming all this stuff that I already knew for a fact. But it's funny that we actually had a good time and I was so proud of myself because I said the one time that I just was like, screw it, I'm going to be me, I'm not going to let them make me fit into this little box of I don't belong here and I'm not part of the family. I'm going to go in there, like I own the damn place. And we had a really great night and there were still two people, namely that sister-in-law, that oh, she, I mean just would not look at me and at one point I was even having a conversation with somebody and she just came and sat down on the other side of the person and started talking to them, just to stop them from talking to me. And I just I acted like it didn't bother me at all and to hell with her. So that's kind of my take on that question.
Speaker 2:I'm a big isolator. I like to stick with people who are my people and I wouldn't normally. I mean, it's not like I'm all excited, like oh, look at me, I'm part of my husband's family, but I don't want to have. I want to be able to share space with them when I have to, because there's going to be funerals and there's going to be things, you know, things that I will want to accompany my husband to as his wife. But I don't think that any one of us should ever feel, or make anyone else let us feel, that we don't belong somewhere, because we do. We can belong wherever we decide we want to.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely Okay. Let's see how do you differentiate between self-preservation and selfishness in your relationships.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a big difference. Self-preservation is when you do those protective mechanisms. Selfishness, you know what selfishness is? It's when you are I mean honestly, it's when you're acting like a toddler, when it's just about me and that's just how it's going to be, and you're not considering the other person. And I don't think any of us is really that selfish. I think it's hard to be a selfish person when you come out of abusive situations, because usually you come out more empath situations, because usually you come out more empathetic, if anything else. But what's your take on that? Because that's a tough one. That was a great question, by the way. Whoever asked that. That's a phenomenal question. But I would just say I mean you know. You know if you're being selfish and versus a self preservation, it's just a matter of awareness.
Speaker 1:I would say that. I would say there's almost like a gray area, you know, because some people would misconstrue self-preservation for selfishness. It just depends on the person. I would have to answer. It would depend on the person reading the situation. Where you and I might say we're doing this for self-preservation, somebody else might say they're doing that because they're selfish. But at the end of the day, it's really about how you need to do to thrive not survive, but to thrive what you need to do to protect yourself, because nobody else is going to. We protect ourselves first.
Speaker 2:And I mean intention, yeah, it's the intention. I would say then is that what you're getting at? That makes sense? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Now, how do you know if you yourself could possibly one day turn into a narcissist? This is a question for you.
Speaker 2:well, I won't. Um, you're either a narcissist or you're not. I don't think you turn into one. You turn into one. It develops in childhood.
Speaker 2:Um, I know there's theories out there, but I absolutely subscribe to the nature versus nurture theory that when you're, as a matter of fact, we could have ended up as narcissists. Usually it's an abused or neglected child. Now I want to be very clear, though, because my ex-husband is a perfect example of this. He perceived that he was neglected. Was he in fact? It's arguable, but his was more. He felt emotionally neglected. He felt less than his sister, who was the golden child. So in his mind but I mean as far as physically and whatever he was not neglected.
Speaker 2:But there is a perceived trauma or abuse when you are a child and you either become a narcissist, where you learn through trial and error that being bad and doing these awful things to fulfill your egotistical need to be important and to feel like you matter definitely make you feel that way, and you can manipulate people to that or you become like us. You feel like you're a bother and a burden, and you again, here's that shrinking down. You shrink down because you internalize the idea that you don't matter and you become more empathic. So it's, it happens. In childhood I did not become a narcissist. Now does that mean I don't have narcissistic qualities? No, absolutely not, because I think this actually goes really well with that last question.
Speaker 2:There are things that I have done Like sometimes it's I'm trying to control a situation. Maybe I might be a little bossy with my husband about something, because something is making me feel uneasy in that circumstance. So I got to get bossy and start controlling it because I need to feel safe. That is not me being narcissistic and trying to manipulate him. That is me trying to feel safe, exactly so you can have qualities and not be a narcissist. Here's my easy test for anybody that's concerned about that. If you are asking yourself if you're even worried that you're a narcissist, you're not a narcissist, because a narcissist would immediately knock it down and say I'm not a narcissist. You're a narcissist. Screw you, there's nothing wrong with me, you're crazy. So there you go. There you go.
Speaker 1:This is a tough one, like I. I was just like I actually reached out to this person who wrote me this question and I offered for you and I to speak with them if they ever wanted to um, not even on a recording just to talk if they ever felt like they really wanted to, because this question really got me and it hurt to read this and they haven't read it. So I've made a little note of who they are and I'm going to reach out again because this question was that powerful to me and I said you are more than welcome to do a Zoom with Dana and I. We will talk with you, we will help you any way that we can. You're not alone. That's how deep this question was and it really hurt. I have not seen a response, um, but that is quite concerning. Have you ever and if you're listening, please, please, please, reach back out um, have you ever felt so invaluable and that you don't care, that you almost feel you would do the world justice by just not being awake in the next morning?
Speaker 2:yes, many times, including recently. I think it's natural, unfortunately, yeah, that's a hard one and I apologize for anybody that might feel triggered by that, but I think it's a very real question and thank you to whoever asked that, because it's very brave to come forward and be honest with yourself about it. But, yeah, I mean, I'm going to be 100% full disclosure. Even as recent as a few weeks ago for me and it sucks, it sucks to feel that way, but we all stumble sometimes. We all.
Speaker 2:No matter how far you come in your healing you're going to, there's going to be something that just maybe you didn't get enough sleep last night and just something hit you wrong, triggered you more than it maybe normally would. Because I and forgive me, I'm going to be real, full disclosure I'm going through the damn change my hormones are, you know, but as women, we have to recognize that too, that that's part of this our hormones and our emotions. And but yeah, yeah, there are times when and I don't think it's so much that I feel like I'd be doing, I mean there are. I have thought I'd be doing the world a favor, but it's more that I don't want to feel the pain of it, I don't want to hurt, I'm tired of hurting, and I think that's where it really is, that I'm going to go one step further with this.
Speaker 1:This individual is I want to respect confidentiality. This individual is under the age of 17.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I felt that way under the age of 17 as well.
Speaker 1:And I think that this individual feels lost and unloved and I love them just because they reached out. I think that, even though they might not think that they are, the fact that subconsciously they reached out to ask a question was so empowering. They need to take that credit. This person needs to take that credit and say I am worthy because I am seen. You also may be quite threatening to people because they see you as a force to be reckoned with and for you to feel so unsafe in who you are. I think there's some transitioning going on, like from one gender to another, and I've noticed that because I started looking at the profile. But I'm being very confidential out of respect. I have all the respect in the world for this person because this person literally reached out, came out of their comfort zone and wanted to get an answer. I will tell you that you are not the only one by far, that this is more common than you have any idea the fact that you recognize that you're so way ahead of yourself, like and I know in a minute I'll be quiet and let Dana say something, because I think you're so far ahead of yourself to already know and what I can see when I looked at your profile. What I could see in your profile is that you recognized who you are and who you identify as. And I am a heterosexual woman, but I completely support the community. Um, I have no issue as long as whoever you're with treats you with respect and doesn't put their hands on you in an unwarranted manner. That's all I care about, um, the fact that I have really close people. Faith is actually part of the community, and that's my daughter. For those who might not know, but for you to recognize who you were and I see that you're going through a transition and for you to follow that is amazing. It is so hard for anyone, whether you're 17, 27, 37, 67, and I'm guessing about your age, that you felt like you could take those steps to welcome who you are in your authentic self and to see that. And I'm guessing that maybe your family's not supporting the transition. Maybe you're getting some hostility at school, maybe you're, you know, having some hostility. You know just an extended family, but you know what? And with respect I say this to help with them, because the thing is is that if they love you unconditionally, they support you.
Speaker 1:When Faith came to me, I went and got like this whole book series called lumberjane and it's a. It's a lesbian series about young teenagers who were in camp and they weren't welcomed because of their sexuality. And I ended up getting her to talk to somebody who was a married lesbian and I welcomed her with open arms. I, I didn't care, I was like and I welcomed her with open arms. I, I didn't care, I was like, okay, great, okay. So why do you think I'm shocked? I'm not. My biological brother is, is homosexual, and you know I wish nothing but the best, as anyone who knows me knows that the thing is is that I'm sure you feel lost and you know what. I'm willing to bet that your family are really the ones that feel lost because they are so stereotypical in this world today, because everybody in this world today cares more about what other people think than what they think themselves. They don't care about, like my immediate family. They care about the perception of what others think from the outside. And you know what, in a few years they're not going to know those people anymore anyway.
Speaker 1:And if you'd rather sit at a restaurant, go to a restaurant and look around, everybody's on their phone, nobody's conversating with one another. They're sitting there. Just why not just go by yourself? I mean, you're sitting there at the table with somebody. You have no conversation, you don't hear their voice unless they're ordering food and they're head deep down in a phone.
Speaker 1:You know what that's, who you should feel sorry for, because that is not how life is supposed to be lived. It's not supposed to be head down into a phone. You know it's funny, because my chiropractor says if you hold your head down to a phone long enough, you're going to get out of alignment. And I think that's a great metaphor about you're going to get out of your way of life because you're holding your head up high. You are acknowledging that you may have been born not the way you feel your best.
Speaker 1:Like you know, I was born with two legs and two arms and I recently lost an arm and a hand, and now I'm having to tell myself psychologically that I'm meant to be this way because I'm here to help other people and it stinks and it hurts and everything in my life has to be done different. I've learned how to tie shoes one handed and the thing is is that you can learn to do things your own way and when you take a different journey. That's not common. It's so much more beautiful because you get to see things no one else does and I just I know I'm rattling on to other people and I'm sorry for taking this minute, but I'm not sorry for talking to you and telling you how unbelievably proud I am of you that you have recognized and gone ahead and started.
Speaker 1:So because you've started your transition, you know you're worth the fight. You know you're worth getting up, dusting yourself off and keep going. And I'm here, I know Dana's here. If you want to talk confidentially, none of anything you say will ever go anywhere. It'll. It'll just be three amazing kick ass people having a conversation and to help with everybody else. That's my two cents.
Speaker 2:No, I love that and I agree a hundred percent and thank you for saying all that. You know I also have two people close to me and out of their privacy. You know I will keep their you know relationships to me private, but once transgender and one is homosexual. But to me my thing is that, even taking that out of the equation, we're all people and if people see you and want to put you in a box and put a label on you, that's the problem and I could go into a whole lecture about that. I don't let people put me in a box anymore.
Speaker 2:Sexual identity but it was my mother straightening my hair and telling me to stop rolling my R's and don't tell anyone that we're Puerto Rican. And we got to fit in with the white people and we got to wear gap clothes. Now, not this frilly stuff your grandma's buying you to wear, that's all colorful and floral and all these crazy prints, because then they'll know that we're Hispanic. It is so shaming. We're shamed enough in circumstances where we're made to feel less than, but when somebody is shaming you for who you identify as, who you authentically are, god damn. Forgive me, but that, just that gnaws at my soul because I was that kid and, yes, I think probably 12, 13 years old was the first time I thought that I didn't want to be alive, and I even had a mother and a stepfather that were telling me that I was never meant to exist because I was an oopsie, doopsie. You know teenage pregnancy. She didn't want me before she had me, she didn't want me. She still doesn't want me. She has nothing to do with me, my mother. So take that. I mean it's hard, but here's the thing. You were born, you were meant to be here. You are here and I don't care what you look like, I don't care who you are attracted to, I don't care if you have 10 legs, two legs, no legs, purple hair, green hair, blue skin. You are a human being, and we talked about puzzle pieces before. Maybe you don't fit in that puzzle. Maybe you don't fit in your family puzzle. They don't understand you, they don't let you in, they don't accept you. Who cares? Neither did mine.
Speaker 2:Kept trying to force myself into these little spots where, well, maybe I'll fit in here, maybe I'll fit in there. You know what? Maybe I don't have to fit in anywhere. Maybe I can just be me and love people with an open heart and be open to people loving me for who I am. You know, I mean it's nice when people say, oh, you're so pretty in this and that I don't care. I don't care, because I don't care if I'm pretty, I don't care if you're pretty, I don't care if you're ugly or I'm ugly, I care about what's in your heart and what kind of a human being you are.
Speaker 2:You know there are people with physical disabilities. My husband's best friend has cerebral palsy and he has so much social anxiety about you know the way his arm is kind of, you know, kind of stuck in and bent a little and he doesn't have full abilities with his hands and he might not be able to talk. You know the best sometimes who cares? I still love you. Somebody is going to love you, right? The people that that see you and see you for who you really are and see how special you are. We'll love you.
Speaker 2:And the other people unfortunately a lot of them, a lot of the time it's our family. It's judgment, and you know where judgment comes from is ego, and you know what ego is. We can talk about narcissism and how they have to feel better about themselves by putting you down. So to hell with them, to hell with everybody. You be who you are, I don't care straight, gay, male, female, male, female, whatever. You just be exactly who you are. You bloom, you thrive, you rise. You give the gift of who you are to this world and people will see you. Forget the people that, don't Forget them, move on. You don't have to hate them, you don't have to wish them ill, just move on. You will find your people. They're out there. We all have our place. So just, but never give up.
Speaker 2:Because you're here and I agree with you, victoria, is that you know, if you can be that young and be that self-aware, wow, I cannot wait to see what the adult mind of this young person has to contribute to this world. What a beautiful mind and a beautiful soul. So, but even for people that are in their sixties and seventies and just realizing these things, don't give up. You're here because you were meant to be here. You have something to offer. It might be that you're raising your grandchild or that you give the best hugs, or whatever it is. You don't have to be like you know finding the cure for cancer or do some like miraculous thing, but you have some gift to offer this world, stay here, give that gift and be open to the people who are willing to give you the love in return.
Speaker 2:Okay, see how fabulous she is? Well, no, I think that was a fabulous question from a fabulous young person and I think that was a very important question for people of all ages, in all places in life, because I felt that way as a young mother. I felt that way as a young person myself. I felt this way recently, even though my life is blessed and perfect and literally like people would look at me and say what is your problem? But you know what we feel, how we feel and we're entitled to how we feel, and there's a reason why we feel the way we feel. But we should not give other people that control and that power over our minds, because we deserve to live and we deserve to be here and be who we are.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. If you could speak to a younger version of yourself who is just starting to recognize the toxicity within their family, what would you say and how would you guide them? And that's for you.
Speaker 2:I have been asked a similar question many times and all I would say is I would tell myself it's going to be okay, because I am a firm believer. And some might argue with me. Do I wish my life had been a little rosier? Absolutely. I wished I had a mother who had the relationship that you have with faith. I wish that I had a mother that wanted to go wedding dress shopping with me and that we had a moment, you know, like on say yes to the dress and, you know, a mother I could call when my son was sick for the first time as a newborn baby. And I didn't have that and it sucked. I didn't have that and it sucked.
Speaker 2:But you know what? It's okay, because I think that our lives are meant to play out the way they're meant to play out and I think if you accept it and stop looking back and wishing things were different and wondering why it happened that way, you can make some space in your heart for the present and for the future. Because, honestly, if I hadn't had all those experiences in my childhood and then been basically primed for the marriage that I had my first marriage, 25 years I mean, it may sound like I'm trying to be snarky or funny, but I would have had no content for my books, that's so true. But I saw my true purpose in life and I survived all of that. You know it's something you have said a million times, victoria that you've survived the worst of your days. You're still here A hundred percent of your bad days. You have survived, and I love that and I think about that a lot, because I have and that helps give my life meaning now that if I wouldn't have gone through all that, I would not fully understand it. And here I had been given the. Can you tell? I've been given the gift of gab and I have a degree in journalism and I can communicate. I had to experience it all so that I could accurately verbalize for other people to understand and relate and help them feel less alone and help them hopefully feel and avoid the pain that I have had to go through. So would I change anything? No, I don't want to change any of that, because then I wouldn't be where I am now, which is in a really good place, despite the way I just answered the last question.
Speaker 2:But that's a result of, you know, that's just showing I think we need to be easy on ourselves and give us grace for those moments when we have those setbacks, whether it be suicidal ideation or just, you know, being triggered and having a panic attack is that we're all human and and we can be healed, but still have those soft spots. That's kind of like when I don't know why we touch our bruises but it's like, oh, I have a bruise, let me touch it and poke it. Oh, it hurts. Well, yeah, it hurts. Dummy, like you know why do we do that? But thank God we have triggers to show us like, hey, you're not exactly quite healed in this spot yet. So, just so you know, it's like our internal alarm system letting us know, just in case we might want to entertain the possibility of reaching out to somebody for help, like people reach out to us.
Speaker 2:So you know, I think it's important for us not to dwell on what was. And I think it's important for us not to dwell on what was. Let's just take it, learn from it and grow from it and understand it as a lesson. I've heard it said that a setback is really a setup and so look at it that way, shift your perspective. So again, I would just say I'd tell little Dana, teenage Dana. It's going to be okay, hang in there, it's going to be all right. You're going to be all right Because I am and I'm getting there, and it gets better every day.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I think we have time for one more, because I know she's on a tight schedule. Have you ever felt responsible for your family's dysfunction, and how do you cope with that feeling that?
Speaker 2:is consuming me. Have I ever felt responsible? I, you know, I can't say I ever felt fully responsible. I was definitely scapegoated and made to feel like I was responsible, but I, there was always something in me that innately knew that I couldn't. I didn't possibly have all that power in me to cause everybody to go. You know, I definitely feel like I stir people's demons up. There's something about my vibe that when I enter a room I don't know what happens, but I think it's just. My core value is honesty and truth, and I think that scares people because people are usually not wanting to acknowledge the truth. My mother wanted to pretend abuse wasn't happening. My stepfather wanted to pretend he was a generous, wonderful, charitable man and and you know he was. I mean your cover of Narc Narc who's there is just. That's what I saw when I saw that cover of your book was my stepfather with that mask. You know, look at me, I'm so great, but behind closed doors monster monster, monster.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I don't think I think I had to just stop making everything mean anything about me and letting it mean something more about them, not because I was being avoidance, but because I think anytime somebody abuses somebody else or intentionally causes any harm on anyone else, that says more about them than it does the person that they're victimizing. What is your thought on that?
Speaker 1:I did. Growing up I did. I felt responsible because I couldn't understand how everything that happened was my fault, and so I started to think okay, then I they had to quit what they were doing, and I and I was a burden. And you know, when I was getting older, they would tell me I hated my grandparents and anybody who knows me for five seconds knows that's a farce, because I live and breathe for them. I have both of their faces tattooed on my back and you know it's literally to to hear that.
Speaker 1:But growing up, and what would just blow my mind is that a man, aka father, stepfather, is supposed to be your daughter's first love. It's supposed to be the man that shows you how you are to be treated. And we're talking about a totally different generation for the both of us than you know now, where I can't tell you how it is to have two dads or two moms. I'm talking about my personal experience, where you know I grew up wanting and longing for that from my dad, because I definitely wasn't getting it from my mom. My mom never hugged me, never told me she loved me, she never told my dad, and so I never saw any affection from the two of them, I never would feel validated. You know, no matter what I did, I was singing and the choir and they would not let me practice. You're causing too much ruckus. He played the organ and I would say can I sing while you play? No, because I got to pay attention, I have to listen, and so I felt like everything that happened was a burden.
Speaker 1:If they brought dinner home from somewhere and it was cold, it was my fault. Even if I didn't go with them to go get it, it was my fault because the food was cold. So I did feel like it was completely my responsibility, like I would be blamed. Now, as an adult, you go back and look at this and be like what the hell? Like your perfect example. If they ordered dinner back, then you would order it and go pick it up. So let's just say they were ordering dinner at six. Let's just say something happened at five or five, 15. Oh, we got home late because we got stuck in traffic, and that's your fault because, for whatever reason, so they ordered dinner at six, but in traffic, and that's your fault because, for whatever reason. So they ordered dinner at six, but because they got home late at five, or whatever the point is, it's my fault, dinner's cold. And back then, when you're little, you're like I didn't mean for it to be cold, I'm sorry, you know. And then it'd be like well, it's cold and it's your fault. So I did feel like everything was on me.
Speaker 1:And then, as I grew older and older, I kept feeling like a void. And then I realized, you know, when I went to some of my friends' birthday parties and I would say what did you wish for? Well, you're not supposed to tell, well, can you tell me what you wish for? And they were like why? And I was like cause I don't think what I wish for is right. And they're like what do you mean?
Speaker 1:And I would tell them, from the earliest time I remember, which was my five year old birthday party, that I remember wishing that they would divorce. That was what I blew out on my cake. You know that I wish that they were no longer married and that I would go with my grandparents, and that is that's a tough way to grow up, and I hated Sundays, because Sundays, when I was there with the bio parents, and Fridays I would go to my grandparents and then in the summer I was with my grandparents, but the you learn to cope with it because as I got older and older and by the grace of God, having my grandparents they would say you know, you're fabulous, you're amazing, you're beautiful. You know you have such a gorgeous voice and my grandmother played piano so she would play and let me sing with her, and, and so those are ways that I learned because they would be night and day from the. That was the house and my grandparents was home and you learn the difference. You take that with you.
Speaker 1:I totally understand this question because you, you feel so responsible. I can't turn off my brain at night. I wish that I could. I feel like it goes into overkill, like overkill mode at night, because when I'm working, I'm focused and I have something to focus on that I'm working on and the tasks at hand. And when you're laying down, you know they say the average person, I don't know it's like anywhere from 16 to 25 minutes to fall asleep or whatever. I'm hours and hours, and hours because I can't shut my brain off and it's like it goes on and on and on and you keep thinking and thinking and you just can't stop.
Speaker 1:And that's how it was Even when I was little, it was like what can I do to make things better for them so that they will just love me? And growing up it didn't matter. Like you know, I sang all state chorus. It didn't matter, it wasn't good enough. You know I've done all sorts of different things and it didn't matter, it wasn't good enough. Nothing I did was ever good enough. And then I realized and here's the epiphany, and and you know, we still got so many questions we didn't get to and I really think this is a great stopping point is one day I looked at them after being told all my life I wasn't good enough and that I couldn't bring it up to the table, that I realized they weren't good enough, that it was them, not me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and thank you for saying that, and I just want to tag along because you just hit the nail on the head, because for me, like I said, I was the scapegoat, I was blamed, I went through all that same stuff. But what I think you hit on is that we realize that we are responsible for how everybody behaves, and I absolutely felt that, and what that's called is a relationship dynamic. They are making you feel like it is. You are responsible for whether things are pleasant or if they're not pleasant, and so you learn that you have to people, please, you have to. You know, I was the perfectionist, always striving for more, do more be more, try to be get approval. Striving for more, do more be more, try to be get approval.
Speaker 2:If I sent, something was going to go awry by an expression or whatever, I would make sure to do whatever I had to do to calm the situation, deflate the system, deescalate things so that there would be no abuse, to keep the peace. And that's where we start feeling responsible. And so, whether you feel like you really were the problem or you were not, the problem you're made to, you're put in the position of. Everything hinges on you, on what you say what you do, the look you give somebody, the way you chew your food, whatever it is, hinges on you, and it's a wonderful power to be given, but it's a real burden of a power to be given when you are a child and should not be burdened when that, when your parents decide they don't want to be parents, they want to be your abusers instead. So I'm sorry for whoever asked that question, because we know what that's like too well, but it's very common and you just have to remember it's not you, it really is them.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely. Well, we are definitely going to have to have a second maybe third episode for questions and answers.
Speaker 2:I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it because it really gets them to get the questions answered they want, and that's what we're here for and what great questions, by the way.
Speaker 2:Thank you to everybody for these amazing questions.
Speaker 1:These are really getting to the core of things, so I love it. And C, I'm actually going to edit that little skip of part where we talk about that individual and I'm going to try and send that as a file to that person and see, because if I can't get them to answer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but anybody that's out there, I want you to feel comfortable. Message Victoria on social media. Message me on Twitter, on Facebook, instagram, tiktok, whatever you have a website, a contagious smilecom. You can access me on Dana as Diazcom. We are both here, both available to anybody that wants to reach out. We will try to help you the best we can, so don't hesitate ever, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And we will call it for this episode and we thank you all for listening and we apologize if we didn't get to your question, but we will. We will get to your question, I promise you. So keep your chins up and realize again. You have survived 100% of your worst days. You are a force to be reckoned with and don't give up on you because we're not giving up on you. Bye, guys.
