A Medium Names The Missing Hand

She said one word that changed the whole room: hands. Danielle Worthing Columber had never met Victoria before, didn’t know her history, and was doing a true cold read when that detail landed and the camera revealed an amputation. What follows is not a polished performance. It’s a raw, human conversation about validation, grief, and what it feels like when someone names the thing you’ve been carrying silently. 

We talk with Danielle, an LCSW trauma therapist and founder of Willow Medella Wellness, and her husband Ganange Mishapeshu, an intuitive medium with deep respect for ancestral teachings and practical reality. Together, we explore how mediumship and trauma-informed care can coexist: pacing, consent, and telling the truth without pushing someone into shock. Victoria shares an unforgettable story from the operating room, where she had to grieve the loss of a hand that held her daughter through hospital stays and held her grandparents at the end of their lives. 

The conversation expands into special needs parenting, long-term medical trauma, and the kind of dark humor that keeps a family standing when life gets heavy. We also unpack an “age 22” message that’s framed as growth and building, not fear, plus the question of how signs from loved ones (and pets) show up in everyday life. We end with a practical takeaway for creators and helpers: make your work accessible, from audiobooks to inclusive formats, so more people can actually receive the support you’re trying to give. 

If this moved you, subscribe, share it with someone who’s grieving, and leave a review so more listeners can find it. What part hit you the hardest?

Transcript

A Skeptic Opens The Door

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Good afternoon and welcome to another episode of A Contagious Smile Unstoppable. I don't even know where to begin. If you listen to the last episode that we just released, I told you with, you know, my husband that I had an amazing opportunity to sit down with this beautiful woman, Danielle, who did something for me that I can never repay her for. And that was to give me an opportunity to speak. And I am not choking up already. God bless America. To already speak with my grandparents. And everybody knows that they were the light and love of my life and my guardian angels. And she said things that she could not have known. Even my husband did not know some of the things that she stated to me. And I've known my husband 25 years. So I talked about you, Danielle, and I it was like everybody, if you even are skeptical, questionable, wondering, whatever, tune into this episode, listen to it for yourself. I will be the guinea pig again. I I've got to beg you, plead. I would put my hands in a praying motion. By the way, everybody, she didn't know I was an amputee. I'm gonna ask her to tell that little part again when she she had I can't even do it. So I'm gonna ask her to come back on multiple times. Her husband, this other beautiful golden ticket, just joined in at the last minute of my request, and we're gonna just have an amazing experience today. I'm still trying to learn how to pronounce his name, and I don't want to insult him, so I have to have him identify himself. And for that, I am sorry. Welcome both of you guys. Give us your name. I'm gonna get it, I promise.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Well, I'm Danielle Worthing Columber. I'm a LCSW, I'm a trauma therapist and owner and founder of Willow Medella Wellness, and not just a trauma therapist here in Utah, I am also a psychic medium. And I will this my lovely husband and I will let him introduce himself.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

So I'm Ganonge Mishapeshu, and how it's spelled is G-V N-A-G-E, Ganange. It's actually Cherokee for black or void. I know I'm a I'm a person who just doesn't want to be around. So I'm Ganonge Mishapeshu, which is both tribes of Cherokee and Chippewa. It comes from my father's side. My mother is actually Irish Italian, so that's why I'm a little white-skinned a little bit, but my skin's actually more olive than anything else. But anyway, I am also a medium and psychic and intuitive and a menace man and and business and very practical with with how the earth works. And I'm very familiar with Wicca and and and uh different religions like Judaism and Christianity. I grew up in the church, and so much church. Much church, much very much LDS. Very much church, and so I've learned to kind of adapt my culture, my my my ancestral culture into what I have learned growing up, going through like Boy Scouts and uh different trainings like that. I've I've gone to college, I didn't really go to college like Danny here. I went to a public school and ended up going to over to a technological school where I got a few degrees, not really degrees, more like certificates and stuff. Like just like in Ray K, I I've learned how to learn how to use the energies around me and and use the animals as the different forces because everything has a spirit.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Yes, yes. I love that. And one of the things is, and my husband will tell you, I do not have the ability to lie. When I try to lie, I smile, my face shows it. It is not a I even in school growing up, I couldn't, and it was really not fair because you know, I couldn't be like, yeah, I did my homework. I didn't, you know, I could never get away with it. So the reason I'm saying that is because I'm gonna just put myself out there. We're doing this on video. I'm gonna put myself out there, and I want everybody to see the amazing, heartwarming things that I saw when I had Danielle for just a minute earlier on. And because there are a lot of skeptics out there, there are people out there that think this is hogwash and it's not real. And at one point in my life, I believed it too. And I shared with Danielle about an incident when I was 19 when I had gone with a coworker out of state and I had an interaction with my grandfather. And that was my first interaction of this nature. And I was like, but then I was like, oh wow. And over the years, I've had you know mediums come on and I've talked to them, and I was like, Oh, that's great. This is what you do, but inside I'm like, no, I'm I don't, I'm still not there. She blew me away, like she blew me out the water. I think the best way to start is you gotta like kind of summarize the whole thing that you and I shared and about with the hand and all, and then we can we can just start from there.

The Hand Detail Changes Everything

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Okay, well, Victoria was so welcoming, and I I ended up connecting with her grandparents and had things messaged to her that she'd been so needing and wanting to hear. Now, I don't know anything about her, I really don't. So, this was a complete cold read. And for those of you who don't know what cold reads, basically blank slate blank slate, blank slate, and at one point I asked her, I go, I don't know what this is, but it's some I I put my hands on top of something about the hands. I was like, I like somebody was like trying to hold hands. I didn't know, it's kind of confusing because everything's cryptic and I have to kind of put puzzle pieces together. And then Victoria holds out held up her arm and I go, shut the front door. I did not know about her hand, and uh even for me as that's gifted, I'm still uh flabbergasted with some of the information that comes through, and and it's kind of like uh you got the trick, but then they give you the real information that validates it, so it validates the the information I'm getting is not just made up out of my head, right? So that's I think that's the biggest thing when developing my gifts was trusting the information that was coming in and not questioning it and just kind of gone with the flow. And even that was like, okay, I I told my I told them, God get going.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

A lot of us struggle with that one once we get into a type of mediumship or even just meditating. Because a lot of people they when they sit down and meditate, they they think, oh, I gotta think about this one particular thing. When I meditate, no, you don't have to think about anything when you meditate or doing yoga or just stretching, or it's it's an exercise that we constantly do on a regular basis to help strengthen our our uh our hearing, help strengthen our sight, help strengthen our our our vocals, help them strengthen our thoughts. It's an exercise that we do on a regular basis that sometimes we don't even think that we're doing, and suddenly we get in tuned with someone, and then they're like, wait, I'm actually being triggered now.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

And then they start looking at you and like, wait, do you see me? Like, I see you. Do you see me? I see you.

Grieving An Amputation In Real Time

SPEAKER_00 7:30

It's so amazing, is you know, and and this is not something I've shared with anyone outside of my husband and my daughter, is that when I went in, like I have a daughter who has special needs, and she's had 54 surgeries. And I I swear on my life that my guardian angels, my grandparents have gotten her through this. And when I got out of the ICU and I finally got to her, she was lifelighted to children's hospital. I had a picture of my grandparents in the incubator with her, and they've always had a I've always had pictures in every room. But when I had to go in for my amputation, I don't take versette before I go back to the OR. I do not, and I have never taken a single pain medication after any surgery ever. Amputation, I have 26 pieces of metal in my face. I have like all my Frankenstein scars and on both sides, and I'm being wheeled in to the OR and I see all the saws and the devices and the drills, and they even have that device that the men have to hold the tools, you know, that clamp. They put your shoulder in so that it doesn't fall off while they're removing your arm. And I'm in there and I'm no medication, right? And I have the same team. Now I'm one of these people. This doctor, this surgeon has done at this point like 18 surgeries on me. And I go in there and I always bring cookies before I go on, you know, in for OR because I have the same team and I'm always like, Thank you for what you've done. Thank you for taking care of me. Make sure I get back to my family. And I always keep my composure because, like, especially my daughter, she feeds off of me. And before we went back, my daughter asked the surgeon, and at that time, she daughter's in her teens, right? She is, but mentally, she's like 10, 11. That's what I was gonna ask.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

That's what I was gonna ask. Like, she's she seems like she's like 14, but she acts like she's like nine or 10.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Yes, she asked the surgeon, she asked the surgeon if he would take her arm and transplant it onto mine. And right before I go back, and I'm like, oh my god, no. And she's like, No, because mom, you've always held me and you've always carried me, and I want you to have my hand, and like everybody is in waterworks, and I said, Absolutely not. So I I'm trying to hold together and I get back into the OR room, and all of the nurses are there, and the team is there, and I lost it. Like I had a moment of like release right before, and I was like, How do I say goodbye to my hand? And they said, You have to grieve it like it's a loss, like it's a death. And I was like, This is the hand that held my daughter's hand when she was in the incubator. This is the hand that held my daughter's hand through all of these surgeries and codes and seizures and you know, all these operations. This is the hand that held my grandparents' hand when my grandmother died. And how do I say goodbye to that? My surgeon comes in and he is an Asian man, he's bawling, the whole team is bawling. And I am like, and you know, she's gonna say, she said to me when we spoke early last week, she said, Stop saying I'm sorry, Victoria, stop it. Like she said, I'm saying it too much. And after we spoke, I thought the grandmother, not me.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

I just after we talked, I'm sorry a lot, and so she had to learn not to do it. I'm like, stop saying you're sorry.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

But but yeah, so your doctor came in. He comes in crying, and after you and I spoke, I thought about it and I went, Oh my god, because I'm laying there, and here comes my surgeon, and he's all scrubbed up, and and all I see are his eyes, and he's crying, and he's like, I have children, and neither one of my children would ever offer me, you know, anything, yet alone their hand and arm. And I was like, I just need a minute. I'm so sorry. I know y'all have other patients waiting. And they were like, No, you are all we have today, and we are here to take care of you. And I had one lady, one nurse who was wiping my eyes, and she was crying, and she goes, I'm so sorry, I'm washing your face. Like she's over me, wiping my face, and she's crying down on my face, and the other nurses are crying. And I cried, I don't even know how to explain the heaviness of my crying. Like, I couldn't catch my breath. They had to give me oxygen, and I was like, I'm losing my hand that held my grandparents, I'm losing the hand that held my daughter. And I was so taken, and I was like, I'm so sorry, I'm holding y'all up. And I kept saying, I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. I'm letting everybody down. I'm so sorry. And they were like, You didn't do anything wrong, you didn't do anything wrong. And they were like, You've got to catch your breath before we can start. And and I just kept thinking, I'm losing this hand that meant so much to me. And when she came on and she was talking about hands, and then she was talking about stop saying you're sorry so much. It was so like I was just dumbfounded by her gift. And so I, you know, this is amazing. There are so many people out there who say they can do it, you know, it's like making a cake. Okay, I learned how to make a cake. There's 15 ingredients and I did it, and now I'm like, you know, I am the the million-dollar baker now, right? But they're not, they just did it for the first time. You are like the real thing, you are the real, real, real thing. And I am just so in awe. And so I'm gonna just totally open myself up to the both of you, as scary as it is. I want all of the listeners to know this was not suggested or talked about beforehand. This is just spur of the moment. I'm putting myself out there. I have no idea what they're gonna say. I want them to be authentic. I know that they will be. I want to show you how amazing these people are. I'm gonna make sure that you guys can reach out to them. And I think it is so important that they're available to everybody. And I want you to see for yourself just how gifted and amazing these two human beings are. So no matter what comes out, I'm I am putting myself out there and I'm ready for it.

SPEAKER_03 13:03

Well, first of all, Victoria, the vulnerability is your vulnerability, but in vulnerability in general, is underappreciated. And we want to be respectful to uh any trauma responses that may come in. And that's another thing is we want to be trauma-informed as we're even though we're telling you the truth, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:26

Absolutely present it in a way that but you also gotta take in consideration that this is also gonna be a type of of a medicine of healing, also.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

That's why I want to showcase y'all's talents because I'm very open about the drama and trauma I went through in my abuse. I I am very open about that. I am not, I'm very private when it comes to my grandparents and things of that nature. So when whenever y'all find, I'm I'm prepared for it because I'll do whatever I can to help other people. I went through all this alone, and I don't want anybody else to ever have to go through it yet alone go through it alone. So I I have I'm a very ugly crier. I'll tell you all that ahead of time, and I'm so sorry, but I'm doing this on video, so I might get the ugly crier of the Millennium Award, but let's just Well, let's let's start with something I think a little

Pranks That Keep A Family Going

SPEAKER_00 14:14

more fun.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

We're gonna I'm gonna start with something with a little light that came in. And I was like picking up something about your husband about something either I can't decide. It's like you both do something that annoys each other, but it's almost like they do it on per you do it on purpose just to get the laugh because you know it gets your your guts going laughing because it kind of lines the mood of the seriousness. So it's as like I almost need like this interplaying, but I can't hear what it is. It might be something he's doing, like an actual mirroring off you. I could be. We might be marrying uh off me, yeah. That's probably true. So he's calling me, uh he's calling me out too.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Keep going.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Keep going.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

This is up. So but okay, so I'm seeing your husband like playing with the dogs, but like you're trying to like get him to stop playing with the dogs because you need like quiet or something, and he's like, he's like, I'm not listening, I'm playing with the dogs, and and he's like annoying you.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

We've never had an argument in 25 years. Uh, we're best friends, and he does. He he we always like my daughter and him prank each other every single day, every day, and it is hysterical from the outside, like the movie Grumpy Old Men. That's the two of us. I mean, like, she'll walk by him and be like, Reformed whore, reform select tramp, you know, and and he'll be like virgin, and she's like, you know, and and she's mentally like right on, like even in middle school, she was reading on a college level, but cognitively she's you know delayed. But she is hysterical, she's written books and she does all these things, but we'll be out somewhere. And like we went to the drugstore the other day, and she's like, Dad, dad, they don't have any suppositories for constipation. Do you also need any depends while we're here? And then she'll be like, Is your STD beds ready? I have to go. Like, you know, these are things that we do. Like the best one was they went to and Eric Winter from the rookie and her are friends, and they talk about all the time how to prank my husband. So she was like, Uh-oh, I got a gift card and I want to give it to my dad because he's the best dad ever. So he FaceTimes her and he was like, Oh, sweetheart, this is so sweet. I'm going through Dunkin' Donuts. I'm gonna get a coffee, and I don't know about it. She won't tell me because she's like, You'll your face will tell that it's a prank. So she's FaceTiming and she has the straightest face. And she was like, Dad, I really want you to enjoy your coffee and your donut, have a good breakfast, whatever. And then he was like, My baby girl, give me this. And he hands the card over, and they're like, Sir, this isn't even activated. There's nothing on the card. And he and she's cracking up now. And he goes, What? And she's like, Yeah, there's nothing on the card. This isn't active. And he's like, Peanut. And then she raises up and goes, I bet you want your wallet. This is stuff that she does all the time. They do this to each other all the time. And so, yeah, when I can, I try to get in there and do it. You know, my husband went right after my amputation. I I didn't want to go anywhere. I was embarrassed and ashamed. And my husband's like, Come on, let's just go for a walk. So we went into a store and he was like, Where are you going? And I pointed like this, I was like, I'm going over there. And he goes, Oh, is that all half off? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

And I was like, I can tell you there's no more handouts. Oh, you guys are sassy like us. We are we are, and that's it fun, you know.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

What year is uh your daughter born?

SPEAKER_00 17:49

2006.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Oh, okay. I was like, so she's she's gotta at least be like close to 2021.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yes. Yes. She's born my youngest son's a 2006. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

What month?

SPEAKER_02 18:09

August.

SPEAKER_01 18:11

August 8th. She's a Leo.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

He's biased, he's a Leo.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

I'm a bias, I'm a Leo.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

When's your birthday?

SPEAKER_01 18:20

But she she's gonna be a little bit. I'm July 20th. I'm I'm I'm the superstar.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

I love it. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

But no, with your daughter, she she's uh very I don't want to say autistic, but she's very in the in in that in that frame of she she she has emotions and feelings that she can express, but she doesn't know how to express it unless she actually writes it down.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

Dude, your face said a lot right there.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

Unless she writes it down, she doesn't know how to express her feelings. And that is normal for Leos in the beginning of of like because there's there's three different Leos, there's three different Aquariuses, there's three different cancers. These are emotions and feelings that people go through. Like for me, I as I said, this superstar, a guy who goes out and like huzzah. Well, she's like, I want a huzzah, but I'm gonna do it like Freddy Cougar, huzzah. Like, like it it's almost like where in the world did that come from? It's like it's it's out of the blue, like light bulb, I just pulled it. Ha ha! Got your nose. Because that's how she is. And that's and that's why what what what what Monday is your husband born? May so that is a Taurus.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

No, he's a Gemini.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Oh, even he's about to have his birthday, okay. So he knows how to flip the switch with her.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Yeah. Oh my god, he always says that phrase. I'm flipping the switch.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Because Gem Knights know how to do that. Six seven. He knows how to flip the switch. He he knows how to he knows how to play the game. He he's the guy who because Gem Knights know how to do that. They they're one motion one minute, then they're another motion another minute. They look like they're they're um on some type of spectrum. But in reality, they're not. That's how they are. They they know how to play the part in one in one area, and when they go to another area, they know how to play that part. They know how to adapt very, very easily.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

He has never met, I've never met this man before today. I he's never met my husband, he's never met my daughter, and he is so spot on that I am like and you were like dumbfounded by me, and now you're like, there's two of us. I want y'all on retainer. Like, I mean, seriously, because he wow, oh my god.

A Daughter’s Surgeries And Fierce Hope

SPEAKER_00 21:07

Like, yes, because my daughter is a such a strong advocate. She won an Emmy for her story. She doesn't like to be in the limelight, but like she has all of these celebrities that come out and say, Would you interview me? She has her own show. And you know, we were in the ICU and she had the cast of Blue Bloods on. And she told the doctor, do not come in while I'm on my interview. And, you know, she's talking to them, and but it like, and when we're there at the hospital, she'll see somebody and she'll be like, Oh, when you get your trach taken out, it'll look like this because she had a trach. But she's so shy. And she said, like every single day I tell her how beautiful she is and how she'll they told her she'd never talk, she never walked, she wouldn't survive, she wouldn't live. Two years ago, we almost lost her again. Like, I take her into the emergency room and they told me we're gonna keep her comfortable and let her go peacefully. And I was like, Listen, I'm gonna ship you. To the hospital across the street because she's going nowhere. And she ended up being so sick that she had to have over 24 surgeries in the ICU at bedside. They couldn't even take her down. They left her open. They left her stomach open. They took 70% of her intestines. She has a scar from her breastbone to her pelvic bone, and it's this wide all the way around. Like she doesn't even have a belly button anymore. And I'm like, I'm so jealous. That is such a badass scar. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Because I have two belly buttons.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

See, you're gonna have to meet her. So like I'm like, you are so amazing. They put her in a medically induced coma. She went into full organ failure, complete organ failure. I'm already in the process of doing my kidney to donation. I'm going through the whole thing. I'm going through the whole thing. And all I did was pray and pray and pray. I was talking to my grandparents like nonstop. Like, I'm praying I have a direct line. I'm like, I'm so sorry. I know you're so busy, but I am like, I can't, I you know, and that and we had the chaplain coming in going, she might not be able to let go until you tell her. And I'm like, Well, I'm not letting go. I can't let go. I cannot.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

I sorry to interrupt, but I was like, I literally heard we had it in a bag. It's almost like they're like, we had it's almost like because the ancestors do, they have it in the bag, they have the bag, and they're like going, it's also we had to make the bells and whistles go off to get the attention of what is about to come.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

So we fought and fought, and when she came through, I had a board for her so she could write. And the first thing she wrote is, I miss my mom hugs. And I have a picture of it, and so they were like, You cannot get in the bed with her. And I'm like, What's it gonna, what's gonna happen if I get in the bed with her? You know, I'm not gonna stimulate her, but she can feel me. That's what kangaroo care is, and it's so critically important. And I'm getting in that bed, and if you don't like it, you can round over and kiss my badonka dog because I'm getting in the bed. So I got in the bed with her. When they came, when she came out of the coma, like she told me, Mom, I remember you singing over me. And she told me what I sang. She said, I remember your tears on my face, you know, and then she wrote a book for other kids who have been through something like this, and it became a bestseller. And it was like, and it's written at that level for them to understand too. And like just when you sit there, and I'm like, I can't imagine life without her. Like, I tell her, my greatest honor in life is being her mom. There's not a doubt in my mind. Like, she is the most amazing. Like, she came home one day, she had gone out with my husband, and she came home. She goes, Mom, I did something for you. And I was like, Okay. And I'm like looking around, and she got this most beautiful tattoo on her arm, and it is a heart, and the heart has scars on it, and it has wings around it, and it says, She calls me her Karamiya, and she goes, My Karamiya, and it says, My idol, my hero, my warrior. And it's on her arm, and she got it tattooed for me, and I had no idea. So we went to her gastroenterologist two weeks ago, and she had a feeding tube for 16 years of her life. They told her she'd never eat by mouth. She has a non-functional, basically non-existing tongue. So people couldn't understand her. Her tongue's about two millimeters, the anatomy is completely different in her mouth, way in the back. She's eating, she's drinking. We got rid of the feeding tube after having it for 16 years. They gave it back to her when we almost lost her, and they told her that's it. She's gonna have to keep it. It's gone. So we went to the gastroenterologist not even two weeks ago, and we walk in and she hates him. She calls him Dr. Diarrhea, and we go in there, and he's like, You don't need me anymore. Like, we told you you were gonna be followed by this for the rest of your life, and and we're we're discharging you. You don't need us anymore. And he's like, the only thing she has kidney disease now because of kidney failure, but we were at a stage four kidney disease, and then when we left, we were at a stage one, and nobody can understand. Like we were in we were on dialysis 24 hours a day in the hospital. We were trying to figure out how we were gonna do dialysis four days a week. We were getting me ready to do a transplant. We come home and she's at a stage one, no transplant, no dialysis, no broccoli, no swan, no nothing. She's eating like you and I, like, can't even begin to understand.

The Meaning Behind Age 22

SPEAKER_03 26:21

So I did get something. I don't this would this is gonna be a weighted delay, so you might have to put this in your bank, memory bank. I heard something about 22. I don't know if it's something's gonna happen when she's 22 or something happened when you were 22, but I heard age 22.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

Is it a good thing or a bad thing?

SPEAKER_03 26:38

I don't know. It's kind of like the hand thing, it's kind of like this mystery feeling that I have, and it's like something huge. But I feel it's more her.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Not really huge, huge, but it it does it it is gonna have some small impact.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Yeah. We don't know if it's her health or or there might be a no, it has nothing to do with her health. See, this is why we work together.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

So people scare me, like than than normal when she's 22. When she does turn 22, there is gonna be a lot of things that she's gonna start building.

SPEAKER_03 27:17

She's not gonna pass, right? This is a no no no no that's what that's what I was trying to tell you. Something is gonna shift, like it was it's kind of like not a word.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

For example, she writes a new book, the book explodes more than what's more than what she was writing before. Or maybe she starts a podcast, the podcast explodes. Something around when you turn 22, you learn to build, you learn to be the master builder of your own reality of what you actually want. Like for me, when I was 22, I moved out, I was in my parents' basement, and I moved out to Salt Lake and I met my my ex-wife, and I learned about crystals, I learned about I learned about all these spiritual things, even though I was in Disney and I went to powwows and rendezvous and stuff like that, and I've learned so much when I was 22, where I was like, oh my gosh, this is actually my company. Like, no, this is actually what I'm supposed to be doing, even though I've worked in kitchens, I've worked in factories, I've worked in different restaurants just to pay bills, just to get by. But I've slowly learned over time of okay, this is how this works, this is how that works. Start connecting the dots, and suddenly you're like, oh. Once you start manifesting this, you start manifesting this, and huzzah you get this.

Getting Lost To Find Purpose

SPEAKER_01 28:48

For example, I was camping up near uh Southwell Lake.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

It's it's down by Great Salt Lake.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

It's down by Great Salt Lake. It's it's almost like 15 minutes out of well out of Wendover. It's a little small town called Grantsville, and they have this big, huge mountain, and it has a canyon and everything. So I decided to go. She freaked out. It's like, don't go. That's this last week.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

I've heard about this.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Don't do it, you're gonna die. And all the kids are like, You're gonna die, Dad. Like, thanks. So I went up there.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

I'm still human, I'm gonna have my own minds. Of course.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

I'm human too. I'm gonna have my own thoughts and feelings about this too. And I went up there, I'm like, okay, ancestors, I'm here. What do you want to say me? What do you want to tell me? I had one Navajo guy come up and just welcomed me. He's like, Welcome. Spirit wise, spirit wise. Okay, he told me welcome in in Navajo. I was like, okay, because I had I heard the word in my head, and I was like, okay, I have to look this up, and I had to look it up and it's like it's greetings. You're here. I'm like, okay, I'm here. What do I suppose to be doing, ancestors of this land or this land or that land? Utah's as is a lot of Navajo, so that would make it Utah has a lot of Navajos and Utes and then the Shoshone Upper and Idaho and northern Utah. But going back to my story, so I'm traveling through the woods, pretty much getting lost. I'm lost in the wilderness for two days. Literally lost. Literally lost. I'm trying to figure out what my purpose is. And I already have a purpose, but my next goal, my next achievement. I'm 33 years old. What do I supposed to be building? What do I supposed to be doing here? Because we have these big and big events that happen through our lives on certain periods of our life, 22, 33, 11. We have these special moments or special birthdays, some people call them gold birthdays or something, silver birthdays. We can get that later. But when I was up there, I was like, okay, ancestors, what am I supposed to be doing? Like, how do I supposed to help the world? What do I supposed to understand? And the understanding when I was up there is being not so much true to yourself, but being true for the people around you. Because in in Ashanabi or Ojibwe or Chipua, my tribe, we believe in the seven grandfather teachings of love, honesty, truth, bravery. And we we label and it's not labels, they're they're lessons. And when we when we once we get into these lessons of how can we be truthful to ourselves, how can we be more loving to ourselves? How can we show bravery to other people of hey, this is what I do, and this is how I can help you? Instead of, yeah, I do this and this and this, and you give those people like they kind of nitpick at everything, but they don't really stay on that one task, like they have ADHD or something. They just dot dot dot dot. And when I was up there, I was like, okay, I don't want to be that type of person that had ADHD and go dot dot dot dot dot dot and just throw my hands up and just like whatever. No, I wanted to go up there and learn and absorb the earth and what it needs to teach me, and it taught me a lot how to be brave, how to be strong, how to be up there by myself, spooked out. Yeah, because I'm there by myself, it's starting to snow, and I'm like, okay, ancestors, show me the way. And they did. It's like follow the ridge, and once you get down to the ridge, you're gonna get down to this dry bed, you're gonna climb down it, and that will lead that lead your way home. I'm like, man, I'm like almost out of water, I'm thirsty, I'm dehydrated, I'm like almost dying from hypothermia while I was up there.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

It's so cold.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

It was so cold. Even my kids told me, he's like, you shouldn't have done that. I'm like, it's a lesson I needed to learn. And these are the things that we personally go through of losing an arm or losing a hand or losing your mind over the small things, just so we can learn the lessons of, oh, what did that really teach me? Of I don't, I'm not weak. Right, I'm strong either way. It doesn't matter if if I have one foot, two foot, three foot, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten. It doesn't matter of where I'm at with my life, I can absorb the energy. And every time you hold up your arm, I think of uh of uh Doctor Strange when he was like, Well, I can't do it because my hands are broken. And he pulls out this other guy who has no hands, and he does the magic just perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Yeah, I tie my own shoes, which blows people's mind. Like I tie my shoes, I open a bottle, like I open a you know, a bottle of jelly or jam or whatever. But I have to tell you, I have to validate something that you said. When you were talking about my daughter, like she writes, she writes poetry, she writes her feelings through poetry, and it's all based in horror. Like, and she loves Freddie Krueger. I'm not kidding, she loves horror. Every Saturday night is father-daughter movie night, and they watch horror movies. So, like one night they're like, Oh, you gotta come watch it. And I'm like, No, no, thank you. I'm I am not a horror movie fan. So, like, no, and they pranked me, little turds, and they're like, No, no, you gotta come down here. So I'm like, No, but I'll come get some more on sweet tea. So I go downstairs and they had stopped the movie waiting on me to come down, and it was so. And when I came down, oh no, they had a pause where the man got amputated arm.

SPEAKER_01 34:45

I'm like, Mom, you gotta watch this.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

And I was like, that's not okay. That's not okay. And so this is great because the the 22 thing was great because you get to see her progress to this, and you don't have to say a word. You get to be the mom to see her this unfolding and go, I'm so glad I got to uh for shadowing, so you can actually sit back and go, That's my baby, that's my baby.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

Do you think she'll ever find like she's so she's gonna have a boyfriend, but he's gonna be awkward like her. She's so beautiful, she's so physically beautiful, and I've told her every single day, you're beautiful, you're you you are such a great person, and then she's like, Who's ever gonna want me? Because you know, I have this small tongue and I eat different, and you know, it's just something that you could tell her.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

First off, she's gonna want herself.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

She's gonna she know she's hot, she'll tell you she's a beautiful girl. Like, I've made sure that she has that self-esteem.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

But sometimes when we actually have that self-esteem, sometimes we burn a little too hot with it, especially Leo's, especially Leo's. We do, we burn a little too hot. We're like, oh, I'm so fabulous, I'm so this. But in in the back of our minds, we think so negative about ourselves, like, oh, I bet that's what people think of me. Yeah, like I'm so hot, I'm so smart, I'm so this, I'm so that. But in reality, we're like, am I? Am I really McGee? Yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

She's very little, she's petite, she's a preemie, and so she's very small. And so, like, we'll go out places and she tries to dress, she's she dresses very gothic to a dis to a degree, and like people will think that she they'll hand her a kid's menu, you know, because she she has a very she looks small and she just looks at them, and she's always been spicy and sassy, like always, you know, like when she had a chance. She was in Audible. When she was in Audible, you know, and the doctor would come in and be like, I gotta change your trake. She'd give them the finger at like two, at three. And I used to cover for her, I taught her sign, and then she had a proxia. So B's, P's, M's, you know, she couldn't say. And then with the tongue not being functional, she couldn't say, like, I need because the tongue couldn't touch the roof of the mouth. So I would teach her, I want. So, you know, she'd say, I want a pencil, or you know, something like that. So I remember we were one time at the hospital, we were five, she was five, and the doctor comes in and he's being such a turd, and she was like, Okay, apple. And he goes, What did you say? And I said, She said apple. She said apple. And she goes, Mom, I said asshole. I didn't say apple, I said asshole. And because they couldn't understand her, I'm like, she said apple, she's she she said apple. And you know, she's like, No, mom, no, I said asshole, and so then she starts signing it, you know, to and I'm like, see, here I am thinking mommy words, I can sign bad language, and I'm good because right. So she picked up all mommy's bad word signs, and she just goes to the doctor, she's like, asshole, you know, and I'm like, oh, but I've always taught her you protect and defend yourself, you never start it, you finish it, you know, and so she does. And she she is my inspiration, she is the reason that I get up and do what I do because she is just she's such a rock. I mean, she really is, she's just amazing. People who meet her and get around her, they say that their whole life changes just from being around her. So when we're done, I'll have her come in and you guys can just meet her for a minute. But she like her aura is so infectious, it really is. And I feel like she's very old spirit, like that's what you get when you're around her.

SPEAKER_03 38:27

And and you actually might have noticed this, but she may not have said this. But some of your listeners may be like kind of like iffy

Fairy Lights And Unspoken Gifts

SPEAKER_03 38:37

about it. I I think she's actually sees like fairy lights a lot. And and I call them fairy lights because of like the the the colored lights. I don't know if they really are fairies or they're spirit fairies, but they're like fairy lights, and she follows them, like kind of like cats can see stuff that's not there. She's aware of it, but she because she's has that broody moody, like almost like a Scorpio. Broody moody. I guess that's a good way to put it. It's like she she has to have her own little secrets that she doesn't share with people. Yes, yes. And something about Naganga, who's pointing out he's connecting her like deeply with your daughter because he was a preemie, and he almost died because it liked to thrive. And so when he said he has two belly buttons, he actually has three, he has several scars from feeding tubes for his stomach, and he will never have a flat stomach because it's all scar tissue, and he really should not have been here.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Nope.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

What a miracle.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

If I was born in Africa, I would not have been here. That's what my mother always tells me. It boy, if you were born in Africa, you would never been here.

SPEAKER_03 39:46

Yeah, it but it's but growing up, he was he would scoot and pull out his feeding tube out of his belly. So he he's like having some uh we call it countertransfers where you relate to the somebody. So it's really, really cool because as you said, that I had I I said something and he came in with all the information. That's one of the things that uh uh this kind of special thing with both both of us is we will get two pieces of information and then we'll splice it together and to go, oh, this is what's coming in. Like, I will get like uh he'll get one tone and I'll get the whole reading, or I'll get a tone and he'll get the whole reading. So it's kind of is almost like our we're marrying each other so we can see a bigger picture. We don't get all the information.

SPEAKER_01 40:28

For me, it's like looking through a peephole. I can see what is going on in the hallway, but once you start moving this way or that way, I don't I can feel you, I can tell you that there's someone there because I can see like shadows or or little sparkly lights or something. But over time, it's it's just like after working with Danielle, it's like, oh wait, I have another person who has another people.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

And and and one of my things is I can actually zoom out and see a bigger picture, but not all the details, or if I can zoom in, it's like a camera that goes in and out, so it doesn't hit me in the middle. It's like I can get like feelings of like eyesights or gestures, or even and you saw the words and the words and stuff. And I don't get the full information because I used to be I could see the shape of the person, but I couldn't see their face, or I could see their face, but not what they look like. It's like it's fractal, literally fractal, very fractal. And so we we kind of connected and we're like, wait, I'm seeing it, but I'm seeing it from this lane during COVID. We had the most amazing conversation about it because we I knew him, I met him on the first day of a holistic group that I was learning because I was doing some self-care because of trauma and stuff, and that's another story we can bring in. But I remember hearing him talking about what he was seeing, people falling down like all over, and and it was it was really, really good. I remember being on the other side of that phone call because I we want a speaker phone, and I start laughing at him, go, it's just a flu. You're people are done like the flu, and that's how I saw it. And then we actually had a conversation, and I thought it was I was like, I was gaslighting his prediction, I was gaslighting his prediction when I from what I was seeing. But when we finally sat down and go, hey, okay, let's talk about this. I was seeing this, you were seeing that, and when we looked together, it was like, no, we were seeing everything correctly, but we were looking at different perspectives, yeah. From our learned experiences, what we under how our body understood, because we know what COVID was. Yeah, and this is at the beginning, and and but the numbers were equal to how many people die the flu every year.

SPEAKER_01 42:47

Yeah, wow, wow, because I was I was driving to a temp job at that at that time, and I saw this guy pass out in the middle of of him working. Is it just a normal construction worker? I was ready to pull over, and suddenly I blink and look back again. He was just shoveling away. I'm like, what in the world is going on? I'm like, that was scary.

SPEAKER_03 43:14

And he called, I called that.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

I call I called I called the group, I'm like, I'm not sure what's going on, but quit eating meat.

SPEAKER_02 43:21

Keep doing this, he was panicking.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Keep doing what you're doing, but stay away from the meat, stay away from stay away from this, stay away from that, stay away from this. And uh, and yet she she's looking at me like who is who is this person?

SPEAKER_03 43:37

I was like, what is he what is he talking about? And mind you though, that was actually a time when I was just really starting to embrace my gifts. I was actually learning how to work with it because I was in my master's program for social work and I was trying to be a trauma therapist, right? But I also had to learn to work with my gifts because I was getting information, but I didn't know how to regulate myself. How to deal with my own traumas, and I was supposed to show up for them. And if I can get information, what do I do with this?

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

So I was learning these things, and when he came in with over the phone, I was seeing this whole picture, and I realized the way I walk into things is gently. So by reframing it to a flu versus the bigger picture that we all experienced during that time was my way of going, okay, if I had to explain to somebody so I don't put them into shock or into crisis modes or trauma mode, I need to learn how to bridge this communication. And that was one of the beautiful things I learned with work with Nagangay over the years was he says it one way, I say it another, and we figure out a way to bridge that communication for people to understand. Yeah, it's an all it's all connected, it's all weaving and coding, and it's kind of like computers, ones and zeros. We all have vibrations, we all have energy, and there's the science that back it up. And when and we come down to everyone has a ability to be psychic or medium because we are born with it, is just like refining the tune. It's like your daughter has gifts of communicating in the most spectacular way, yeah, and it's it's refined just for her because she figured it out.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Yeah. And you know, really to get you, she's doing a book. I'm going out to Arizona as a guest speaker, as a speaker of a big event, and she's writing a book for it, and it's called Echoes Inside Your Skull. Whoa, that's and it's all horror poems that she's written.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

I gotta talk to her. She's gonna like me with because I am a Scorpio.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

She's gonna love you. I'm getting when we get done recording, I'm gonna bring her in for a minute and let her talk to y'all because she's very skeptical. And I was like, there's no way that Danielle would have known the things that she knew ever. And she was like, Yeah, you know, but I was like, You gotta meet her, you just have to meet her. But okay, so I gotta ask, because we talked a lot about my husband, we talked a lot about our daughter. What do you get when you read me? What sign am I? Tell me what you feeling you get, because I want the listeners to really this is as raw as it gets. I love how you put us on the spot.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

That's what is what's funny. Is always when somebody goes, put you on the spot and you and then spot on. He's spot on. I'm I'm just as human like anybody else. When somebody goes, do this, you're like, Go ahead, whoa, let's miss it. So like science and stuff. He probably will be able to tell you the sign, but if I was coming in, I could literally diagnose some stuff.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

You born the spring or the summer?

SPEAKER_03 46:41

Neither one.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

I see sun. I see a lot of sun.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

What state were you born in?

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Yeah, what state?

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Georgia.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

There we go. Okay. That's what I'm saying. Like, I'm seeing a lot of sun. I'm like, but the the season's off. I feel like the season's off. Okay. So you're born in Georgia. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 47:04

So give me a second.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:07

Yeah, he let him tune in. I I don't wanna see if my energy goes high, it blocks his. We've kind of learned to do this together.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

So we get quiet. Your father's a Capricorn, wasn't he? Your father was born in December.

SPEAKER_03 47:23

No.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

November? January.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

No. There's only so many months of the year.

SPEAKER_01 47:28

I know. But you were you your father was born during the wintertime.

SPEAKER_03 47:32

No.

SPEAKER_01 47:33

No?

SPEAKER_03 47:34

No. Wait.

SPEAKER_01 47:36

Who was?

SPEAKER_03 47:36

Grant. What about grandfather? This is gonna be fun.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

Someone was born during like the winter. It wasn't Christmas time, but it was like January? Like February, January. There's still snow in certain places.

SPEAKER_00 47:50

My grandfather was February.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Okay, that's your your grandfather's picking up.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

Did you love how I said grandfather? Because you said your grandfather was your father.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

So he doesn't know any of this. No, you don't know anything. I do. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

All right. Grandfather, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 48:09

He's very dapper, just to warn you.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

So dapper. He's like a Sean Connery, Clark Gable.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Yeah, it's like he has like this he has like this weird physique about him, like Sean Connery, like James Bond kind of as very distinct.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

He was so distinguished. And my grandmother, even in her 80s, she was always put together so beautifully and so classy, but not like snobby and stuck up, you know. But she was just so like radiant and beautiful. Like just and their love, oh, their love story. I was always like, I want this. I want this marriage. This is kind of what I want, is it is what you guys are.

SPEAKER_03 48:49

So so so Victoria, I have to say before my brain like explodes

Childhood Trauma And Grandma’s Safety

SPEAKER_03 48:53

at me. Sorry, if I have like a knowing and it just keeps tickling me, it will drive me crazy. Sorry. Just say it. So your anxiety as a kid, okay. Your anxiety with my gosh. Gotta breathe into this one. Your anxiety made you almost so squirrely, you couldn't sit still, but it's almost like you could have been having ADHD, but it was actually more trauma response to be hyper-aware to things that just got to the point where people would have to sit you down and go, sit, read. You like they would have to break it down to you without it shaming you because you would have shut down so fast.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

Yes and no. My biological father, who I call my sperm donor, used to pick me up and put me on top of his armoire in his bedroom and leave me there. And I wouldn't do anything wrong, but he would, I was the black sheep. I got blamed for things that happened when I wasn't even there. And there was an instance like you might be getting where, for instance, he had wanted me to go to the swimming pool with him and I didn't want to go. I'd never wanted he, I didn't like how he was. And so he sneezed and I said, God bless you. And he said, if you talk again, every time you say a word, I'm gonna pinch you for every word you say. And it was like a few minutes later, he sneezed again and I said, Bless you. And he came over and he pinched me twice. And so the next time he wanted to go to the pool, I made myself throw up so I didn't have to go out there with him. And so when I was with my grandparents, like if one of my grandparents were in the hospital and I'm like eight, nine years old, I stayed from beginning to end. And then I went back with the other grandparents and stayed with them at their house all day, all night, which is unheard of for a kid. But I always was right there with them. And I was always like straight A student and you know, doing all of this when I was with them, but I never felt like I belonged with my bio family because I was the black sheep.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

It it's it's weird because it's like I was getting like two. That's why I was breathing. It was like having this two conflicting things. Thank you for clarifying. So it's like there was a smartness, and then there's like stay still, and like so. There was this anxiety that you were split, and uh it it calmed down my brain. Thank you. One of the things that I get is that you literally would melt with something your grand would do with cooking. Like you, I don't, I don't know what it was, but it almost melt I think it's almost breakfast, but I can't tell. It's not they're not giving me smell, but like this melting, like oh like butter or something. You know how some people wake up with coffee, it wasn't coffee, but it's like you'd be she'd be baking something and you knew exactly what she was making. It would like wake you up. You you it's almost like this cozy feeling that only grandma could bring to you.

SPEAKER_01 51:47

Like for me, my mom makes gingerbread during weird times, and it smells amazing because she makes it from scratch, and so it's it's that sense.

SPEAKER_03 51:56

Smell, it's like that safety of it's I'm home.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

Yeah, it's so funny you say that because we would do Sunday dinners, and my grandmother had this philosophy that the way to a man's heart is you also feed them. And so there was no men allowed in her kitchen, and so I would be in the kitchen with her and we would be cooking, and then we would every other week every week we went to someone else, like we went to my biological egg donor, and she couldn't cook to save her life. So the joke on going was we're gonna eat before we go or right after, and then whatever was on the table, um, my grandfather would put it in a napkin and say I ate, and then you know, we would all be like, Oh, I don't want to go over there because she couldn't cook. Thank you. And stucco just came in. So we I she couldn't cook, and then at night she would make me rye toast with blackberry and then sometimes bosomberry jelly, which I had never heard of in my life. And to this day, I can tell you where everything was in her house, like everything in the childhood home. And she would give me light and lively milk, which they don't even make anymore. And I would have this toast again. Every night butter

Service Dogs And Protective Love

SPEAKER_00 53:12

on my toast. Come here, stucco.

SPEAKER_03 53:13

Let's go. So he smelled the butter. I couldn't smell you validated. That is so cool.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

I was like, I'm smelling like sweet butter now again, like like it's like on biscuits or rolls or something. It's just like sweet honey butter.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Nice. Oh, stucco and rusty are in here with me. Okay, this is stucco. This is I can't see.

SPEAKER_02 53:34

Oh, almost almost, oh there we go.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

That's my service dog. This is Stucco, who the kids' book, Stucco Squad, was based on. Oh this is my baby. This is my sweet boy.

SPEAKER_03 53:47

Oh my gosh, his it he has so much love. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

This is my baby. Even when I came home, I was worried when I came home from my amputation because he's only a couple months old. He was so loving, he didn't do anything, he just laid right there. He's a little prankster. Whenever my husband tries to get near me, he shoves him away. He won't let him near me. He pushes him. Come here, Rusty. Rusty is my daughter's service dog, and he's so sweet and loving, he's very protective. He's bigger. Come here. Oh, this is Rusty. Come here, can you see that? Oh, much bigger. He has a scar going down his nose, and she loves that. And he's got huge paws, but he gently hands them to you every time. I mean, he is the gentlest. We call him the gentle giant.

SPEAKER_03 54:28

He looks like he's older, but younger than his age, and his eyes. Oh my gosh, his look is stucco son.

SPEAKER_00 54:36

Ah, this is stucco son. Yeah, the good boy. I'm a good boy.

SPEAKER_02 54:42

Gosh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 54:44

Rusty's a sweet baby.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

Oh, beautiful. I hope you're I hope your people who get to see this and hear this can appreciate these dogs.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

And then the two puppies are downstairs and they're sleeping right now. They're four-month-old white, pure white golden retrieval.

SPEAKER_03 54:59

Yeah, yeah, we we we we grounded our cats from coming in here. I didn't want them interrupting. Okay, I gotta talk to them. I love you. Give me kisses. I love you. Okay, uh, he talks. I'll go to my clients' houses and and the the dogs and the cats. They're like they don't ever respond to anybody, but with you, I'm like, Green, of course. I'm not so. Did you bear on? He talks. He okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:23

I'm sorry. So we're okay. I'm gonna open book now because I I promised the readers that I would let them see how florent I was. Because I'm telling you, I got like all of my read and all of my listeners' stuff are gonna just bombard y'all because I'm like, you this is it. If you ever wanted to know, this is where you go, this is it, this is where you go, this is authentic, this is what you need to hear. I'm telling you, I was dumbfounded.

SPEAKER_03 55:48

Well, the the cool thing with us is you actually get the full package. We're even if we're not saying we're psychic or medium, we are who we are, and that's and our lived experiences is the important part. And the communication. I mean, your your listeners don't know this.

A Trauma Therapist Who Sees Spirits

SPEAKER_03 56:03

I am a doctoral candidate. I am in my last two semesters before my capstone project. I am getting my doctorate in social work. I opened up my own practice in the middle of doing my doctorate. I I worked with first responders. I used to work child welfare, I used to be a recreational therapist and a habilitation therapist. I mean, I have experiences and yet nobody knows the paranormal side stories of these experiences working with my clients, their family, their the friends that I've made and still listen to. I mean, I have people that crossed over, they still come visit me. I mean, gosh, how lucky is that? Most of us just want to connect with a loved one or something. I get people that I hadn't spoken to in two decades that will just pop up and say hello to me. I'm like, oh my gosh. It's like and it's funny how you be with an old friend, time melts away. Well, time's irrelevant over there, it's all linear, but it really is amazing how you can actually become reconnected with your history, with who you've known, your ancestors, and like for for example, I I saw I saw my cat today.

Signs From Pets And Family

SPEAKER_03 57:19

His cat's dead.

SPEAKER_01 57:20

My my cat's been dead for him that you're the paw.

SPEAKER_03 57:23

Oh so this aww.

SPEAKER_01 57:28

So that's over here.

SPEAKER_03 57:30

Tiffany.

SPEAKER_01 57:31

That's Tiffany.

SPEAKER_03 57:33

I love it. My daughter ta my daughter's a tattoo artist.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

And so he died last year, and I'll a year ago, and I'll see his shadow come move around the house. Like today, I saw him because I was taking out the garbage. He came out with me with the garbage, and he came back inside. And I saw I saw his little black shower. He went downstairs.

SPEAKER_03 57:56

I'm like, oh we were talking in the garage, and he starts looking around because he feels Tiffany. Tiffany's around, and I have other dad cats here too. But Tiffany loves to make himself known.

SPEAKER_01 58:09

Yes, and he shows up the like this big, huge, flat bulb of an orb, and it's a black orb.

SPEAKER_03 58:16

He's a black cat.

SPEAKER_01 58:17

He's a black cat. He's going to show himself as a fluffy shadow.

SPEAKER_03 58:22

And then there's my father, my father passed away two months before Tiffany did, ironically. And my father's part of my father's ashes are her, but my father is a trickster and he loves moving things. And I had to tell my dad, stop doing that.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

Because he did once we came home. Her son's picture on the wall was laying the table.

SPEAKER_03 58:50

So we went, we we came home, we saw the pictures.

SPEAKER_01 58:53

We were talking about like Danny, did you move this? She's like, move what? I was in the kitchen. I'm like, we come back out. It's sitting on the coffee table. Your kid's picture is like sitting right here on the coffee table. You didn't have to be able to do that. Not broken. Not broken, not falling off.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

Now the kids were home to do this. And I go, Dad.

SPEAKER_01 59:11

Stop it.

SPEAKER_03 59:12

I go, we love you. But even that freaks us out.

SPEAKER_00 59:15

Yeah, I'll be in the middle of the night and like he'll say something and the light will turn on. And I'm like, aha, you know, and it happens all the time. And like my daughter would say something and she'll go grab a frying pan. And I really see my grandparents in her so much because my grandmother was always like so, you know, like she would just zing you without you know the emotion. And my grandfather was the prankster. So like she would grab a frying pan and she goes, Don't make me use this. And like she never hit any, like, she's never hit anybody. My daughter goes and gets a frying pan. She never met her physically and will go get a frying pan and take it to my husband and be like, Don't make me use this.

SPEAKER_02 59:53

That's funny.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

What? Okay, so you said something's gonna happen to my daughter at 22. What do you get about me? Because now I'm like nervous and scared and antsy, but excited and well, going back to your birthday.

Libra Energy And What Comes Next

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

Let's let's start with that so I can at least get the energy. So you're not born in the spring, summer, or or so you have to be born in fall. You gotta be close to at least a Libra. I am you are okay. So August 20.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:31

No, Libra's in October. No, Libra starts September 23rd. Yeah. So I'm thinking I'm thinking you're an early.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:39

Well, I was gonna say October because it's sorry, not October. August. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:48

Okay. August is her daughter, so get your daughters sign out.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:52

Okay, there we go. I see a one in there somewhere. Like one five.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:04

I'm the first day of a Libra. I'm the 23rd of September.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:07

I was like, it's like when it has to be like a scout, yeah. Like she's she's the she's September 1st. Not September 21rd. 23rd.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

23rd. So that's what I was saying. I was like, I was seeing a one, but then I was seeing a five. I was like, okay, between one and five, what's between one and five? Two.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:26

Yeah, but that's a good one. Yeah, there, and here's the great part. There are some skeptics going, they're fishing for information just with what we're having.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

Like, this is really this is how I work.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

This is so so Naganga actually we have to be patient and listen because I I'm totally believing and I and I'm Nagange actually has a actual learning disability as well as I do.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:48

So we were constantly working with our gifts, but we also have to work with our deaf. I call them deficit, but superpowers with it.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:55

Deficits.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:56

But with me, I have just ADHD, undiagnosed ADHD, uh distacula, so I flip numbers consistently, so I see mirth ear, which is really good, and dyslexia.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:07

And I have a learning disability, which it's documented, it's documented and everything. I've I've struggled with it my whole entire life. Like the the comprehension of reading, if you tell me a word, I'll understand the word, but if you try to tell me to spell it, I have to look it up. I mean, I probably maybe get half it correct or half not correct.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:30

So so regardless of this, so so you're Libra?

SPEAKER_01 1:02:35

Libra.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:36

My daughter, my daughter is a Libra. And oh my gosh, you're all about justice, but with those, Kate, your scales are kind of funny. I'm gonna laugh at this one. It's not even a balance scare. It's like we're gonna tip it to make it look like justice, but I'm gonna weight it down a little just enough to give you a little how can I put it? It yeah, the pressure's a good one to, but it's almost like it's not like your daughter's where she'll kind of get you, but it's kind of like I'll weigh you down so you feel like you're drowning, but you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:12

Virgo. Who's Virgo? Do you know anybody with Virgo in your family? Who's the Virgo? They're born like between like August 22nd to September 21st.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:28

I don't know anyone. You're picking up my brother.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:32

Oh, I am.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:33

Yeah, my brother Jeff's here.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

Oh, hi Jeff. The dead people just once we start clicking in, they start coming in, they start coming in.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:43

There's not even a there's no boundaries.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:47

There is absolutely no boundaries for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:49

So so I mentioned my bro, my dad, so my brother came in. I'm like, they're like, we want to see they're like, too. They're painting gallery, anyways. So, but with you, so with the scales, there's there's still balance, but it's like almost like you have a little bit more weight on one side, so you kind of tip the the energy towards what you need, so it's almost like you manifest it, like going, I would like it to go this way, so the energy kind of pushes it that way, even though you want it to be fair and just, but at the same time, you do it in such a way where you do it. I don't want to be held accountable for anything that I may cause to hurt anybody, but if it can go my way, I'm gonna set it that way. Okay, let me rephrase that. Let me rephrase that. You are gentle, you don't cause harm, but you know when something's not right, you want it corrected, and so you're going to do everything in your ability to support that without causing it to pull out fractur, fractal pull out your mama bear. Yeah, you pull out your mama bear. That's a good way, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:06

That's the best way to explain it. With with Libras, they are very protective of what their pack is or what their community is. But once once they're kind of off in their own head, same with Leos, we we Leos and Libras, we we kind of work together on the same mental capacity. Once we start doing something, we get into it, and once that negative talk starts talking, we we can't you pull back, we pull back.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:37

So so there's this that balance, but you it's like it is a balance in scales, but when you have to put pressure on one of the scales, it will come and do it, and then when it's not it doesn't benefit the reason you're you put it balances back out, you take the pressure off.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

Does that make sense? Yeah, can you guys see anything happen?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:04

Yeah, when is the next book gonna come out?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

I've produced I did one two I've done like five already this year. I did another one that just was Amazon bestseller. I have probably three or four more coming out this year. That was a simple validation either.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:25

I heard when's the next book coming out?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:28

It's like you almost have like another one like three you haven't written yet.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:35

Okay. Do you have any of them that are audible? No. You might consider doing two or three as audible because I feel that there is a need for it. And and I think a lot more people are going going back to like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:14

And the blind. They want to read your book, but there isn't really any access to it. And so there needs to be a structure where there needs to be access to it, either having a book written in braille or the possibility of doing the audio thing. You have you have a uh a group, you have a community that listens to you. But what you want is you want everybody to listen to you, not just have access to you, not just the blacks or whites or the Chinese or the or the South Americans. It's not like not just putting different languages, one people, it's not just one language, it's everybody. If you could put it in like a lot of different languages, I think it would be a very, very helpful and very um it's more inclusive. Inclusive.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:09

There we go. He agrees. Who agreed? That's Rusty. Oh, Rusty Dad. Thank you, Rusty.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:18

Thank you, Rusty.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:21

Because what's happening is it's almost like so. You were asking future things. What's gonna happen is because your daughter uh has her phone platform, they want her to look at your platform and vice versa. You kind of support each other. It's like these bookends that do a thing. But at the same time, the people like me who's ADHD, the the even reading and having an audio actually like spitch if uh speechify does reads, it helps us maintain the words and helps us process better and faster. And so those those things are being asked for and called for more, especially real voices versus somebody doing AI where they're just reading it to you, they want real, yeah, actual person doing it.

Writing Trauma And Loss For Kids

SPEAKER_00 1:09:07

Like my daughter, you know, we started, we did the stucco squad, which is an 11-book series, and these are for kids, four to eight years old, and we have stucco in it, and she is the one of the main characters that my daughter is. And in every single book, and here's the irony, especially since I spoke with her, every single book goes through something different, and they're all real life situations. Like one of them is when home is too loud and the child hears and sees the abuse at home and thinks it's their fault. Well, if I did this better, maybe dad wouldn't yell at mom or or things like that, or another book is when you know you're being bullied at school, how to handle that. And then they're the all of them we got out, and they are on the level of a four to eight-year-old, so they can comprehend it, understand it. It's at their level. And the one book that I kept trying to get out and get out is called Fading the Fate the Fading Color. And it is about a loved one who's crossing over and how to understand the loss of that. And no matter how many times, and it was the same exact format that I put together time and time again, I couldn't get it. I self-published and I couldn't get it to go out, and I was like, Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:12

Because the title's wrong.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

Well, it just went live, like I just got it out. You just got it, it did finally go out after I tried it and submitted and submitted and submitted, and then I spoke with Danielle, and you know, and the next thing I know, this is about the passing, and I based it on the passing of a loved one, and it was a grandmother.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:30

There's a part two of that book.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:32

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:33

It's called The Rainbow Bridge.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:37

Did you just get freaked out or something just with your face?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:41

The Rainbow Bridge is already. Oh my god. The Rainbow Bridge is already done. It's in the stucco squad, and it's about kind of like an invisible string, and it's for the child that has to go from one home to another because of a broken home.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:58

Yeah, there's a part, there's a part two to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:01

The Rainbow Bridge is about the child understanding that there's that visible that the invisible connection. Hey, the invisible connection to the parent that they want to be with, and that the child doesn't want to go with the other parent because that other parent's abusive and hurting and you know really upsetting the child, and the child doesn't want to go because of that reason. And therefore, there's that rainbow bridge.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:29

What what I'm kind of hearing is kind of funny because it keeps going back to the rainbow bridge. It's almost like the story of the other rainbow bridge, like the other rainbow bridge. And because you have the dogs, when they pass over, they say they go over the rainbow bridge. So we're talking about loss on even that that connection. So you that that thread you're talking about, it's almost like that story, but that on the other side of the veil.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:55

Well, we have really run over.

Promise To Return And Farewell

SPEAKER_00 1:11:57

I want to have a both promise me you're gonna come back. See, I'm so sorry. No, right? You both have to promise me you're gonna come back.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:04

Like, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:06

Okay, so I'm gonna make sure we have everywhere to find you guys out there. I am gonna tell everybody they have to tone in for the next part two of this. It's gonna be amazing. I cannot thank you both for all that you do. And I'm sorry, there it is. When you get bombarded from everybody in my my tribe that's like, I want, I want, I want, I want, I want, I want and they're reaching out to you, and you're like, okay, Victoria, for the love of God. Like, you know, because there's only so much in a day. I'm gonna enjoy that though. So just remember us little people. So we were gonna have you guys back again. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:41

Thank you, thank you.