How The Guardian Model Rebuilds Mental Health Care

The fastest way to break a person isn’t always the illness; it’s the system that treats them like a number and calls it “care.” We sit down with veteran attorney and nonprofit leader Michael Mackniak, a nationally recognized mental health advocate and the founder behind the Guardian Model and the Care Coalition, to talk about what actually changes outcomes for people who are stuck in high-need, high-risk cycles.

We get specific about care coordination: why the client has to be the captain, how a “bicycle wheel” team falls apart when communication is optional, and why a single, well-built timeline of hospitalizations, medications, crises, and what worked can become the key that unlocks better decisions. Michael also shares the hard math behind the cost of neglect, comparing proactive community-based support with the staggering price of repeated emergency room visits and inpatient psychiatric stays.

Along the way, we name the everyday failures listeners recognize: two-minute chart reviews, long waits for appointments, electronic medical records that don’t connect across networks, insurance barriers that crush hope, and families who get treated like a burden for speaking up. We end with practical ways to advocate without burning out, plus where to find Michael’s resources at carecoalition.org and his books on Amazon, including “Saving Melissa” and “The Seven C’s to Cure the Mental Health System.”

If you care about mental health reform, patient-centered care, and real-world healthcare navigation, hit subscribe, share this with someone who needs an ally, and leave a review so more families can find these tools. What’s one moment the system made you feel unheard?

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Good afternoon, and welcome back to another episode of Unstoppable with a Contagious Smile. I'm gonna have Michael McNeck. Did I say that right? Did I do it right? Yes. He's a veteran attorney, and I'm so honored that he's here. We were chatting long before we even started. He's a nonprofit leader, a nationally recognized innovator in a mental health advocacy, which we so desperately need. With over three decades of experience, he's the founder of the Guardian model and the care coalition. I cannot wait to talk about both of these organizations. These two initiatives that have reshaped how we approach care coordination for some of the most vulnerable individuals in our communities. I cannot thank you enough for finding time and your incredibly busy schedule to be here with us. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

No, I thank you for the work you do and the people that you reach on such a global level. It's it's inspiring, it really is. So thanks for having me. And I should clarify for people, I'm not a veteran of the United States military. I'm a veteran attorney, meaning I've been practicing for over 30 years. So I don't want to date myself, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

You don't look like you could be an attorney for 30 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

That's well, that's good. Thank you. I appreciate that. It's the it's the uh the the bald head, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

That keeps you young looking. Is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

I guess. I don't know. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

So you have so much to talk about. We want to talk about the guardian model. We want to talk about the care coalition, also about the Melissa's project. What is the Melissa's project first? Let's start there.

Melissa’s Project And The Guardian Idea

SPEAKER_00 1:27

All right. Melissa's Project is the first project that we rolled out under the Guardian model. Okay. Okay, so the name of the agency that I created back in 2001 in collaboration with the ProBate Court Administration and the Department of Mental Health is called Guardian Adlightum Services Incorporated. We do not act as Guardians Ed Lightum. We do not act in a fiduciary capacity. Frankly, I needed a name when I was incorporating the business. And at that time, I was doing some work with or for Guardians Adlitum. And it just seemed to me that the term Guardian Adlitum, for those of you who don't know, essentially means and you may have experienced this yourself, where a an independent third party is brought in to act where others should be acting. You see it very often when two parents are getting divorced, they bring in a guardian adlightum to represent the best interest of the child in that divorce, right? So the parents should be acting in that way, but they don't. They get on arguments over who's going to get the record collection and what color the you know the drapes should be. So they have to bring in a third party to act. So I call it like a guardian instead of. So the work that I envisioned when we put together the corporation was we're kind of going to step in here and we're going to do some of the work that we think that the systems of care that are out there should be providing. We're going to try to do some of this advocacy and promotion of the rights and the needs of the most vulnerable populations where the powers that be should be doing it, we're going to step in and do it for them. So that's a long way of answering the question. The pro the the steering committee that was put together was, you know, basically for guardian the line of services. We came up with the project that is now, as you say, Melissa's project. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Most people they see our system is broken and they become where they feel powerless in it because they see a broken system. You saw the same system and you built something amazing and so desperately needed for it. What is that exact moment when you realize I'm not just going to work in the system, I'm going to, I'm going to change

Care Coordination And The Seven C’s

SPEAKER_01 3:42

it.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Well, you know, I as I said, I was practicing law and I just I never I never had a real job, I guess. I never worked for anybody. I went around and I and I built my own practice. And one of the ways I did that was to go to the various courts and say, hey, I'm new, I'm I'm here, I'm I'm willing to take on cases, I'm willing to help in any way I can. And I I, you know, you don't get paid a lot of money, but you get a little bit to help you keep the lights on and get your your your feet wet. And that's what I did. And and it doesn't take long when you're working in mental health and neurological disorders and you know things that the probate court system has jurisdiction over. It doesn't take long for you to see that there's a tremendous need for people who understand how the system is supposed to work and are willing to advocate and and be a voice for people who otherwise can't can't or won't speak for themselves. So that was that was it. It was really just me saying, Wow, we really need something to help these people be heard. And and the model that I created is we called it back in 2001, we called it care coordination. That's sort of taken on a new meaning in the healthcare systems nowadays. But at the time, it simply meant we're going to monitor what's going on with a client, we're going to report to everybody else that's working with a client or patient, and then we are going to coordinate all of those people to make sure that they're all rowing in the same direction. It really is based on the seven principles that are in my book, The Seven C's to Cure the Mental Health System. And they start with number one, client-centered, right? Let's be let's make sure that the client is our hero. They are the pilot of this of this plane or the captain of the ship. And then it really comes down to enhancing and what's the word I'm looking for, facilitating communication on a real broad level, on a real broad level. And that's that's the model. If if if everybody did that, I wouldn't have a job and then I could officially retire. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

What made you so much into this mental health advocacy? Because a lot of attorneys aren't as humble in giving into this category as you are.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

I don't I I don't know. I can't say that I ever had any history with mental health in my family or otherwise. Well, we all have we all have that one in your family that you shake your head about, right? But no, I I never had a history or any kind of dealings with mental health or mental illness. And I just I just hate red tape and I hate bureaucracy. And this was an area that I felt very confident in, and I thought that I was doing a good job. And I just said, I can I can make a difference here. There's this is this is BS. I can I know that we could do better. Yeah, so I just designed this this this model, and it and it's been however many 25 years now that I've been doing this model in our nonprofit and and impacting thousands of people. And I just it makes me happy. It just makes me proud.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

As it should, it should. And thank

The True Cost Of Neglect

SPEAKER_01 6:58

you for what you do. But you know, we were talking before we we came on here about the cost of care. And when you do nothing, that is a massive cost of neglect. It's a huge cost of neglect. What do you think the real price society pays when this the society is failing these individuals?

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Well, I could tell you, for instance, for us to provide the care coordination that we provide to keep people out of the recidivistic nature of hospitalizations, emergency room, trauma, emergency room, commitment to the to the medical ward, you know, and then turn your back around and back into the system with the same crappy plan that got you there in the first place. This this revolving door cycle is what we will really went to curb. And our program has been studied in terms of its efficacy in terms of reduced arrests and incarcerations and reduction in emergency room visits and the subsequent hospitalizations, both inpatient at a community-based facility, but also in long-term psychiatric facilities. Our program only costs somewhere in the neighborhood of like $6,000 per year per client. But the think about it this way, it can cost up to $1,000 to $3,000 per day in any of these hospital settings, right? Especially inpatient psychiatric or especially emergency room settings. And I don't have the numbers off the top of my head anymore. I used to study this, but we have been studied by two different universities to prove the efficacy. So if you just think about this being proactive concept of being out there and being in front of the crises before they happen, as opposed to responding to every time it hits the fan, it the numbers are staggering. It really is. We were on pace to save over a million and they cut us like 600,000. And it's like you're just this is just so short-sighted. And all we want to do is keep kicking the can down the row, kicking the can down the row for somebody else to figure it out later, but later never comes, as we know. Right. So numbers, I don't know the hard numbers, the data, but if you if you can just think about being proactive and being out in front and not having people go through those thousand dollar a day treatments and keeping them in the community with the right circle of care around them, how much money we save? It's staggering. It's just staggering per year per per person.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah.

How The Model Works In Practice

SPEAKER_01 9:39

So let's hypothetically say I join into your system. Tell me how it works and how it can help prevent me from having to go into this thousand to three thousand dollar a day hospital situation.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yeah, well, it's really pretty simple. In our typical infographic is that of a bicycle spoke wheel with a bunch of spokes, right? Okay. Where client/slash patient is in the center of that of that bicycle wheel. And there's several spokes that go off all around it. I mean, there could be five spokes or there could be 50 spokes. I've I've been in meetings where you know I've had 30 people sitting around a table, all making grand plans for one mutual client. Unfortunately, the client was not in the room, right? So getting back to client-centered care, we need to be making sure that the client is driving this ship, the captain of this ship. So what we do is we we do a hardcore background check on any client that comes via referral to our office. And we want to get every detail of every hospitalization, every medication, every incarceration, every inpatient stay that we can. So we can really put together a comprehensive timeline. And folks, this is an important one for you all later, your caregivers especially. A comprehensive timeline showing what happened, when it happened, how it happened, why it happened, what were the circumstances going on around that time, what was attempted as as a as a not cure, but what did we try to do to fix or to curb the situation? And what worked and what didn't work, what medications worked, what didn't work, what what interventions in the community worked and what didn't work, and and really discovering in that patterns and propensities, if you will, to help us to really formulate good planning moving forward. So that's that's our very first step. Uh next step is that we engage with our clients slash patients on a very intimate level and let them know we are not your parents, we're not your first fiduciary, we're not the law, we're not the we're not your case manager, we're not your psychiatrist, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. What we are is an ally to you. You need to think of us as an ally. We're standing right next to you in the center of that spoke, and we want to help you to get where you want to go, not where everybody else in the in the wheel around you wants you to go, but we want to help you get to where you want to go. So let's start by hearing what your hopes and dreams and wishes, what you hate, what you love, what you're willing to do, what you're not willing to do. Let's start there. And then really it gets it. Then that's that's the easy part, frankly. That that that comes easy. Proving to people that we are their allies is takes time, but but letting them know that we're there to listen and there's a lot of power in listening, it that is a huge step in the right direction. The hard part is is to break into that team of people, the providers that are in the system, and let them know that we are here, we're not going away, we're here at the behest of this client andor the fiduciary that is working with this client. That's why we're involved. That's why you have to talk to us. And if you don't talk to us, we're gonna tell on you. We're gonna tell on you to everybody else that makes up the spokes of this wheel. And we're gonna tell on you to the providers, i.e., the department of mental health, who's funding you, the department of social services, who's funding you, that you're not playing nice in the sandbox. And you, provider, need to get on board with the strategy that the rest of the team is is putting together. Michael, do you that's where the real that's where the real moving of mountains comes in?

SPEAKER_01 13:30

Do you get a POA, a medical POA over your clients?

SPEAKER_00 13:34

No, no, we get a release of we get a release so that we can talk to we uh almost nine uh 99.9% of our clients are involved in a probate court system and they are conserved. We call it kind of conservator where I'm from. Think of guardianship. They do have that that level of of care. Or they've or in some cases they will give us a POA. Yeah, but it works the clients that we're working with, unfortunately, are the 10% of the population that take 90% of the resources. So they are the the you know the very difficult cases of people who are really struggling to maintain meaningful life in the community. So and for the most part, they are conserved, they're involved in the court systems on some level, and there are people who are working out for them. And then we are brought in by the probate courts, we are brought in by the Department of Mental Health because whatever's been placed right now just doesn't seem to be working. So we we get a we get a release of information and we get the blessing of the courts to get in, to get our hands dirty and work with the families and the clients and and their entire team.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

Right off the bat, the fact that you make it an alignment with your client is above and beyond what is already not happening because everybody looks at them as a patient number, a case number. They don't look at them as a person. And that is why, because so many people that I even get to talk with feel like they don't matter anymore. And it just downspirals because they're like, I'm just a case number. I'm I'm a kickback from, you know, the pharmaceutical company that gives the doctor money for giving that prescription to them, you know? And so they'd feel that like they don't matter. And that's why the fact that you started out saying, you know, we're in alignment and we're here as a team, it that's such a huge strategy. And it's such a great thing that everybody who's listening needs to listen to. Because people feel in the mental health thing that they don't matter, that they're not deserving of help, that they're just a burden is really the word I get a lot from patients, is that they feel like they're

Advocacy Without Becoming The “Burden”

SPEAKER_01 15:38

a burden.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Burden is a very strong word, and I think that people feel that way. I will say that it what you just what you just summarize is sad but true. I will also tell you that the family in these systems, you probably experienced this yourself, but the families in this system who are the squeaky wheel, I say this all the time, they don't get the grease. The squeaky wheel in these systems does not get the grease. They are the burden, they're the ones that it's like, man, here she comes again. I don't want to have to listen to her. Let me put her in the back of the garage and hope she fixes herself or goes away. That is very true. That is that is anecdotally speaking. I'm telling you guys, that is the truth. That happens. It's a matter of teaching people how to be a productive squeaky wheel and a respected squeaky wheel and a welcome squeaky wheel that is important to making headway in this system. So people need to learn the right language to use, they need to learn the buzzwords and and be educated. And that's not always easy, it's not always fun, sometimes it's boring and sometimes it's cumbersome, but it's it's absolutely necessary. And it really starts with that timeline that I talked about, the cathartic method of going through writing this stuff down and having it. When you have that information, you are the holder of the keys to the kingdom. And when you give that to a psychiatrist, they think it's Christmas when you hand them all this information because it gives them they can now be an informed provider. And the the fact of the matter is that that folks feeling like a burden. I think that there's a lot to that. And I feel bad for all the people out there who don't have a group like mine who was saying, no, no, no, no, you're not going to treat my client like a burden. You my client is doing their job by being whatever it is they're being. It's your job to figure out how to work around that. That's why you are the professional that you are. That's why you got all this training. And I sincerely believe in that.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Yeah, because so and so often I go in and I am the advocate for the special needs family. I go in and I'm the advocate for survivor of abuse, or an advocate. I I've been an advocate for someone who's been in mental health many, many times. And you go in there and you remind them, I know that you are looking at the clock like, come on, shift change is about to be over. Just wait till the next one comes on. And that no, this is a person, this is a human being. This could be your mother, your brother, your dad, your sister, your daughter, your son. You need to look at them with authenticity that they are a human being taking in the same oxygen that unfortunately you, who's looking like, oh, it's only a paycheck, is taking in as well. And people don't do that anymore. It's like, okay, this is a job and I got hired and I needed a check and I don't care. Just put them away and shut the door and put them in the padded room. That's not how you should treat somebody, right? Because that could be them tomorrow. You don't know. You have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

And I don't even think it's anymore. Uh you said this they just don't do that anymore. I think that this is a system that has developed itself since the late six mid to late sixties, and it has created itself this way. This is not something new. This is, you know, I can't blame the millennials for this one. This is no, you can't. This is something that's been going on. But you know, you one of the one of the my my partner at work there, her name is Sarah Valentino, and she always goes in with the attitude that if this was your sister, how would you be treating her?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

That that's

Why Healthcare Communication Keeps Failing

SPEAKER_01 19:06

I'd say if this is your daughter, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Right, right. And one of the things that you you touched on there is I I I talked to a doctor a couple weeks ago and asked, you know, what what's the average amount of time you have to spend with a patient? They said no more than 15 minutes. Okay, what's the average amount of time that you have to research and uh the and review the client's file before you see that patient? No more than two to three minutes. Okay, that's scary in another. So now you go in there and and to your point, uh when you go see your doctor, this is a snapshot. They're getting a Polaroid photo in a moment's time. They go home at the end of their shift. The family, the patient, they're living this 24-7. This is a feature film on repeat that just keeps playing and playing and playing. It's like sitting through all of the the the Tolkien movies all at once, right? It's gonna go on for 12 hours, buckle your seatbelts, and hope you can get some sleep afterward. And then it repeats.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

We gotta we gotta remember that.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, I mean, it's horrible. We like, for instance, you go and make an appointment because you need a surgery or or something, and they don't have anything for four months. You go to the doctor and and they have nothing for months and months and months. Like, you know, my husband is a vet and he tries to make an appointment with the VA and they're like, Oh, we can see you for a sleep study in six months. Well, if you have sleep apnea, you're for six months, you're supposed to just deal with it, right? Because sleep apnea, you stop breathing in your sleep and they don't care. It's like six months, and then you come in there and they're like, We have 15 people. Come on, let's go, let's go, let's go, let's go. You know, like I'm hurrying up, I got a new date tonight, I have a new item going out with them, I have this and I have that. I'm getting my nails done. Let's go. But what about the patient? There's no advocacy for the patient. It's like, okay, let's go hurry up. I got things to do. If you want to advocate for yourself and ask questions, a lot of times, unless you go in there with that pit bull adversary, they come in there and they just are like, What? What is your question? What it'll be in your my chart. Just go look, you know? And it's like you wait four months. You wait four months to be seen and you get two minutes to be heard, and they're not listening half the time anyway.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Well, and when you and and then I think in in those circumstances, and and I'm a card-carrying member of the Sleep Apnea Club, too. But you know, in those circumstances, not being heard and and waiting all that time, it's just as you say, you know, we were talking about my prostate cancer before. I was diagnosed with prostate cancer in February of 2020, right? As COVID hit, right? So everything's about to shut down. I get diagnosed, and luckily my doctor agreed and had the same attitude I did. You know, this is not something that's going to live in me for any period of time. This is coming out. So May of 2020, while the world was shut down, I still went and had my surgery. You know, I we pushed that, we forced that issue. Because I don't want to have to wait all this time. And and and talking about the and that goes to the to this communication issue. And you brought up the my chart stuff. We were all sold this bill of goods that this electronic medical system was going to be so wonderful. Well, guess what? My oncologist doesn't talk to my my whatever, my my ear, nose, and throat guy because they're in two different networks. So now I have to talk to every doctor I go to, I got to fill out that same damn form to go into their portal. I got to remember who's in whose portal, who talks to who and who doesn't. So it's all the same crap we've always been dealing with. It's just if they would just communicate with each other that we could we could really get past a lot of that stuff, a lot of this need, or even step up the urgency sometimes for some clients who really need it.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Because the doctors don't look at it that way. And also it's like, oh, what insurance do you have?

SPEAKER_00 23:02

Oh like this one's not good at paying. Right.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

You know, there was a there was an individual who needed a cochlear implant,

Real Stories From Broken Care Systems

SPEAKER_01 23:10

and the doctor was like, Oh, yeah, you're a candidate for it, does the testing, everything else. Oh, yeah, we're gonna get you cochlear implant. Comes back for the next visit, getting the patient's psychologically getting ready for this life-changing thing, and comes in and says, Oh, you're on Medicaid. I'm sorry, I didn't tell you. They're the only insurance provider that doesn't allow cochlear implants, but it's $300,000 if you want to pay for it. And it's like, if they had $300,000, they wouldn't be on Medicaid, number one. And the doctor's like, Well, there's nothing that you can do that, like, you're not gonna hear anymore. Like, you know, and it doesn't cover for adults. So you're SOL. But I'm gonna go next door now. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Well, and yeah, I got another patient that I got to go and tell this. It hasn't better insurance. So and and as you said, the trauma, the nerves, the the anxiety that goes into that whole process of setting up and waiting and waiting and waiting only to be told that. Oh my gosh, that is that's heartbreaking, heartbreaking story in and of itself.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Right. And the fact that you just and then for four months you worry on the what if or however long it is. You know, uh there's patients that are trying to get in just to pain management that have mental health situations, and they are trying to get into pain management six months to a year to get into pain management, and then they want to know why you have an addiction situation in in front of them.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:30

You wonder why that is, right? I mean, but if that was your sister or your daughter, I guarantee it wouldn't be six months to a year to come in. And then you go in the room and it's two minutes, and you know, see you later, you know, see you in the six months.

SPEAKER_00 24:42

Here, let me give you these pills that I'm getting paid to give you. And I don't, you know, I'm I'm cynical, but and I hate to be that cynical, but I I really I think that I look at my poor father who is 84 years old, God bless him. I talked to him yesterday, he's great spirits, he's but he's on so many medications, and I'm just like, Dad, get off some of this, med. You know, my God, but going back to what you were saying before, and there's another way to look at this too. We have a a client who 17 times in the period of 31 days went to the hospital emergency room complaining that his arm hurt 17 times. Wow, goes into the emergency room, they look at him, they say there's nothing wrong with his arm, and they sent them back home. Two days later, he came back, or a day later, whatever it was. And I looked at this in the with at a meeting with the administrators of the hospital, and I said, Did anybody think that there's something going on here beyond the arm? And maybe you should bring somebody from Psych Down to have a look at this guy, and maybe there's something else that's manifesting here that you're not digging, you're not scratching the surface of. And that really bothers me the lack of communication between within the same hospital, the various categories and care levels and things like this that that don't talk to each other. But you and me sitting here and look at this and say, Man, it's just common sense. Look at the record. This guy's been here 17 times. There's nothing wrong with him. Well, maybe there is something wrong with him that you can't see, right? And then you know, he's asking for help with something else that you're not really in tune with right now, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:23

But good for him for keeping trying and going in asking for help, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:28

Yeah, I guess. And they just kept turning them away. And there you go, back to your, I feel like a burden anecdote, right? I mean, maybe they you know, maybe that that is a big part of it.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Yeah. I mean, if you're going in there, look at it. Their numbers have to say something. I mean, how how hard is it gonna be to call psych down to say, can you do a consult? And just evaluate it.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Just about it. Well, and they have, I mean, I know they could send down the the social worker who has a they have a a list. It's here, here's the 17 questions you ask to do a screening, they call it a screening, you know. And frankly, the guy probably would have passed their screening, but at least we did something more than just saying, There you go, Joe, you're all set. See you see you in two days in the onwards again. Yeah, troublesome. Yeah, it's very troublesome.

Burnout, Phones, And Remembering Humanity

SPEAKER_01 27:16

It is, especially, you know, they say, you know, at shift change, that's horrible. At night, it's horrible because people are just, you know, we've been so many times at the hospital where I've been in there advocating for other individuals, and everybody's out on the on the in the nurses station on their phones. Every nurse is out there on their phone. I know, and it's like that's such a societal problem.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Makes me crazy. I can't even go down that rabbit hole with you. My God, how about you know, on an airplane in any kind of waiting room? And then it's horrible.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Right, but it's worse when you're in a hospital and you're in the ER and you have somebody legitimately having like techacardia issues, or you know, they're having you know aphib issues, and everybody out there and your your things are beeping and you're you're getting systolic and you're looking around and everybody's like, Oh, look at this tick tock, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

And you're like, you know, watching cat video, you're watching cat videos, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Right.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Yeah, no, and and it just goes to God, at least pretend you care. Exactly. At least pretend you still have that. What whatever made you want to be that profession, at least pretend you still got that in there. And I believe that people do, and and and that's kind of an important message here, you know. We could be we could beat up on the the service system and all that, but you know, people are there because they care about they care or cared at one time enough about all this to really to really to really get involved to the point where they're gonna be spending money to become educated. And my girlfriend gets on me, especially with regards to my podcast and things like this, because she's like, You don't offer any answers. And I was like, Well, I don't have any definitive answers, but I think one of the things that's at least a little bit soothing or or uh reaffirming for people is that we uh you know, you and I have been through this with enough personally and professionally to see and to say that your problems, folks that are listening out there, are you're not unique, you're not alone. If that gives you comfort on any level, there's a ton of people out there that are feeling the same angst as you, that are going through the same angst as you. People that are working in the system feel the same angst as you, and and they they share and they understand your frustration. And if you can talk about those frustrations with other people and hear their journey and share lessons you learned on your journey, it goes so far, and it really can be the best alliance you can create for for people who out who are out there and need you. So, if nothing else, we may not have all the answers, we can help you with some attempts, some some possible solutions, but just understand that you're not alone and and this is not unique to you because that in and of itself can be devastating and isolating.

Where To Find Michael And Resources

SPEAKER_01 30:06

100%. Tell everybody where they can find you. I'm gonna make sure that they have all the links. I want you to promise me first you're gonna come back.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

I'm I'm gonna guarantee, I'm gonna make you promise me I'm gonna come back.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

The best place to find me right now, because I'm in the process of of repurposing a lot of my stuff and to get everything aligned as as we were talking about before we hit record. The best place to go right now is to go to carecoalition.org and I'll talk to you about the work that not only that that we do in alliance with the nonprofit, but also trying to get this coalition, if you will, this army of people who are going through these things together. But also, you can find out about our podcast there, and you can find out about our care navigator journal there. So there's resources available. So I would start there, and then that'll bring you to the nonprofit and the work that I'm doing for 26 years now. And and really, carecoalition.org is where I would send people at this point. It's the most comprehensive place to find information about my beliefs and what I'm trying to accomplish.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

And what about your book? Where is that?

SPEAKER_00 31:17

You can get that on Amazon. I got it's called Saving Melissa. You can remember that because the name Melissa's project, Saving Melissa, 7C, Secure the Mental Health System. And I got another book out there called Character, become the person your social media quote unquote friends already think you are. It's just like a self- I love that self-inggrinding grandizement. What are you saying? You know what I'm trying to say. That's just a fun little affirmations kind of book that are that's out there as well. There's a couple others, but those are my two main resources in terms of books on Amazon right now.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Michael, I cannot thank you enough for being on with us today. You are such a source of light and resources for everybody else. And we're gonna have you back on. You're gonna you're gonna get back on again.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

We got a series we have to plan.

SPEAKER_01 32:02

That's right. I'm trying to talk him into a series. So we're gonna jump off here. And I got my husband every hand on bring him on over. Michael, say hello. Michael, say hello to Michael.

SPEAKER_00 32:09

Hey, Michael.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Thank you, everybody, for listening. Definitely get in touch with Michael and do everything you can to help him. A contagious smile supports him 100%, and you should too.